On this episode of the Innovative Schools podcast, we're talking with Jessica Sinarski about how movement in the classroom can help minimize disruptive behavior and improve learning. Jessica also explains the $10 word proprioception. So come on. Let's learn together. Hey, everybody.
Speaker 1:This is Jordan, and I am joined today by co host, Liz, for today's Innovative School podcast. Hey, Liz.
Speaker 2:Hey, Jordan. How's it going?
Speaker 1:It's going good. You know? We're just hanging out, doing some more podcasts. Who's our guest today?
Speaker 2:So today, we have one of the most incredible women, that we could have had, Jessica Sonarski. She is an absolute godsend and a powerhouse when it comes to education and counseling. So I'm super excited to learn from her today.
Speaker 3:Hey, Jessica. Hey. I am super glad to be here. Thanks for that, Liz.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That was that was beautiful. Wonderfully said. Jessica, I'm excited to do this podcast with you. I've known you for a little bit.
Speaker 1:We've done a couple different things together. And so I'm really interested to get into this, topic of movement and proprioception. But first, can you can you tell us a little bit about your work in education and with students and kinda why you got into the work that you do?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. So my background is actually in mental health. I that's what I went to school, grad school for, and my my career has always been with kids who have really big behavioral stuff going on. Sometimes that's the acting out kinds of behaviors. Sometimes it's the shutdown kinds of behaviors.
Speaker 3:But, a good chunk of my career was dealing with the aftermath of trauma, so foster care, adoption, kinship care kinds of situations. And then what started to emerge as I understood the brain behavior connection more is that there are just ways to function as caring adults that are helpful for all kids and, like, really essential for kids who've experienced trauma or for some of our neurodivergent kids. And so as more and more of my clients in private practice and, in workshops and things like that were having to go try to translate this stuff to the school, it just became clear that there was this gap in what schools were getting in a really user friendly way. And so I founded the organization Bravebrains to try to bridge that gap.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for sharing that, Jessica. Honestly, that's incredible. So I just wanna know from your perspective, what are some things that you've seen along the lines of disruptive behaviors in the classroom surrounding, like sensory processing things going on with students?
Speaker 3:Sure. So when I I mean, disruptive behaviors, I'm sure if you are listening right now, you don't need me to tell you. You have, like, a list from today probably that you can you can come up with. So I'm talking about things all the way from, you know, blurting out and, sort of impulsively, like, bothering your neighbor and some of those kinds of things through to some of the big beat meltdown, aggressive outbursts, those kind of, like, tantrums sorts of things, fights. All of this can be sort of in the realm of disruptive behavior as well as those shut down the kid that, like, hides under the desk or, sort of, you know, head down on the desk, what I talk about as a sort of turtle, like going into turtle mode.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:That disrupts learning. That disrupts not only that student's learning, but the teacher's train of thought and other students. And so my hope in introducing making sensory science a little bit more user friendly for educators is to just give enough of the basics that there are some, like, pretty easy preventive thing preventative things that can help all students. And then, of course, get some support from your team for some of those kids that that need a little bit more. And so school counselors and behavior specialists and and occupational therapists and, yeah, let's team up to to hit the big stuff.
Speaker 3:But, man, we can dial back a lot of the impulsive, you know, fidgety, aggressive kinds of things that just happen on a day to day basis and are annoying.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah. For sure. I know just thinking about myself, like, in school, when a kid would have some kinda outburst or something that went on, like, I was disruptive for the whole rest, you know, at least for a while. And I didn't always understand what's going on. At times, I was probably more mean about that, not understanding what was going on.
Speaker 1:And that probably, you know, impacted me in my learning and my ability to learn. So I I really see where being able to understand, you know, this sensory, processing and how it can really help with the classroom. Do you have, like we talked a little bit about it, but I wanna dig in a little bit more of, like, your personal experiences
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:With sensory processing and seeing how it's disruptive to learning in the classroom.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So the like, understanding the the sensory behavior connection got very personal, about twelve years ago as I was learning some of this science on the professional side and seeing what my clients needed that my training had not provided, I also was dealing with it on the home front. I am a mom of three boys, and one of my boys was having, just a whole host of behavioral things going on that we didn't really understand. He was he had a super sweet disposition. He was very bright.
Speaker 3:He is still very bright, but he was a very bright little dude reading at age four, and and yet he would, he was fidgeting constantly. He was, one day, the preschool teacher had asked us in to talk because she's like, I don't know what's going on. You know, I asked him to draw a house, and he just burst into tears. And, and so what began to unfold was understanding that the signals between his brain and his body were just not all connecting in the ways that let him feel safe and in control and ready to learn and make connections. And so what unfolded has really informed some of that, this can help kids who really need it as well as, man, as I've put this in practice with kids everywhere, gosh, everyone just really needs a little bit more of that $10 word that you mentioned, proprioception.
Speaker 3:That is, and so that's part of what I try to make easy for educators is you don't need a whole another degree. You don't you know, if you wanna go become an occupational therapist, yay, please do. But, be a teacher. We need we need you to teach and Yeah. Just this little bit of an of of knowing that, of knowing what's going on between body and brain can be a game changer for classroom behavior.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, Jessica, you mentioned, a word, proprioception. If you could just help our listeners just kind of understand a little bit more of what that is and why it's so critical in the classroom and outside of the classroom, honestly.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Absolutely. So if you've never heard that word before, you are in good company. I was way further into my my adulthood and career than I would like to have been. And so proprioception is one of our hidden senses.
Speaker 3:We have these five external facing senses that we all learned about in preschool.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:But then we have hidden senses as well. And proprioception comes from our muscles and joints and tendons and is kind of known as the, like, body awareness sense. So even right now as you're listening, there's a little bit of pressure maybe from your your headphones on your ears. Or if you're, like, sitting in a chair, there's that little bit of like, your body is aware that you're sitting in a chair. And when when we're like, it can be super disorienting if we're not getting enough of that.
Speaker 3:And so for our kids who are are really struggling and fidgety and agitated, it's kinda like that feeling of when you think there's another stare there and there's not. And you get that, like, oh,
Speaker 2:oh, I
Speaker 1:did that this morning. Right?
Speaker 3:It does not feel good. And so that that kind of disoriented feeling is underlying a lot of the irritating behavior that we see.
Speaker 2:Okay. That's totally incredible.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. So, like, listening to you talk about it. So when you first talked when we were talking about getting this podcast and you were using the word proprioception, I did my my own research because, as I said earlier, it is a $10 word, and I only have $3 in my bank account. So I was really concerned I couldn't afford it. So I I I did some just to, like, understand a little bit more about that because you called it the the next sense.
Speaker 1:Right? We know, like, taste and sight and smell and Sure. All that stuff. But proprioception being that that next sense that we don't talk about as that much. And just to help it helped me understand a little bit more what that system does to understand that it there's, like, an automatic side and there's a a learned side.
Speaker 1:And the automatic side being things like, being able to walk over uneven ground without thinking about it. Your muscles and tendons and everything just kinda do what it needs to do to keep you upright, or even just being able to scratch your nose without looking. Like
Speaker 3:Mhmm. You
Speaker 1:can't really see your nose. It's there, but you can reach and you can grab it. Like, the just that like you're saying, that sense of awareness knowing that you're sitting in a chair. And then there's there's learn proprioception things like more complex, playing the piano or riding a bike, learning sports and things like that. So, but what you're kinda talking about here is that that system, please correct me if I'm not using the correct terminology, can sometimes You're good.
Speaker 1:Be seeking kinda more input. It it it's it's not quite getting everything or
Speaker 3:It's not.
Speaker 1:Hated. It's not. Sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So, yes, I I love that you're bringing this up. So you mentioned, you know, there's stuff that our our body is kind of automatically adjusting to, but the reality is almost everything that we do fairly automatically, like, you know, to drink from a cup, I I know to grab it at a certain pressure. I know to lift it with a certain amount of muscle. I know to to pull it to my lips.
Speaker 3:But we learned that. Right? That is that's actually something that way, way, way back when, there had to be all these connections that made that automatic, kinda like riding a bike or driving a car that took effort at first. So almost everything we do now without thinking took effort at first, and our senses are very involved in that process. So when you think about, well and I'll say too.
Speaker 3:I loved your $10, 3 dollar analogy because the the bargain version of the word is prop. So when in doubt, go prop.
Speaker 1:With prop. Got it.
Speaker 3:I I think for our for a lot of our kids in the modern age, they are craving more probe because they're not out hauling buckets of water distances or plowing the field or things that really take a lot of muscle and, and give a lot of feedback to that proprioceptive system. So when you're thinking about probe, you think of I think about, like, things like pressure, weight, pushing, pulling, crashing, banging, any of those kinds of things are giving little bursts of information to your muscles and joints, and that goes to your brain. So another another way to think about this that has helped me just visualize the science of it is we know we have, like, taste buds on our tongue. Mhmm. So those are sensory receptors.
Speaker 3:They're like taking the chemical and electrical information from our food and translating it for our brain like, you know, yum ice cream or, you know, whatever. Like, danger that's rotten. Right? Our senses work to keep us safe, and they help us enjoy the world. So prop is kind of like that too where, you know, being able to step on uneven ground or, yeah, or know where the, like, even being able to walk down the hall without holding yourself up on the walls.
Speaker 3:Like, it's using proprioception and another hidden sense that we won't talk today. So we can think about our sensory systems kind of like a cup, and and all of us have different sizes of cups. So my son, his prop cup is very big. He
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:At the time and still needs a lot of proprioception in his life to feel okay. So much so that he, you know, even as a teenager now, he always sleeps with a weighted blanket because he doesn't feel right the next day if he doesn't. So he gets a nice dose of prop at night. If he's stressed out, he still will, like, sort of wrestle against me, or he'll go, you know, get some, get some probe in the woods, smack in a tree with a stick or swinging some, you know, random
Speaker 1:What boy behavior. Right?
Speaker 3:He's not a sporty kid. Right? He's not the kid who's gonna be playing football and running track, and but he still his body still needs all that that, sensory input. And so that's another part of my encouragement to educators is it's not necessarily your most coordinated kids who are craving this. And so sometimes we think we're doing, brain breaks that help, but they're they're supposed to follow these certain instructions.
Speaker 3:And if they can't, they get frustrated. And then but those might be the kids that need the movement the most. And so, part of what I've tried to put together in in a couple different ways, some free ways, some really low, low barrier of impact ways is making this easier to understand and put in practice right away. So that's part of why I'm excited you guys brought me on the podcast because I know we're gonna spend the whole second half talking about what this looks like in action.
Speaker 2:Wow, Jessica. I love that you shared, kind of giving that illustration of a cup of proprioception being either sometimes they need a a lot, sometimes they need a little. For teachers and people in education in general, what is a way that you can kind of notice and be alerted that, hey. Maybe the student needs a little bit more proprioceptive input, at the time.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Great question. So I think of things that that like fidgeting, excessive movement, crashing into people or objects. I used to joke that my son was like our a bumper car. Like, he didn't know where he was unless he was bumping into someone or something.
Speaker 3:You know, those kids that struggle to sit still, or if you're seeing a lot of meltdowns, surprisingly, that can be something that, so like crying at the drop of a hat kind of thing, that might be a sign that that sensory system is a little off kilter. Even some of the pesky sort of attention seeking behave like, what is often labeled as attention seeking, that's not my favorite phrase, but, those attention seeking behaviors, I I heard a story from a teacher who was trying to put this science in practice in her classroom, and she's like, okay. I was so proud of myself because I you know, there's this kiddo, and he and he struggles in the afternoon, and I was like, I think this is that probe thing. And so when he was starting to get a little fidgety and bothering his neighbor and and stuff, I just went up beside him, and I just gave him a big squeeze on the side and was like, hey, buddy. Come on.
Speaker 3:Hang hang in there. And that squeeze was that probe. And she's like, that it worked. Like, that that did it. Like, he was able to regroup and get back on task and not distract his peers and all of those things.
Speaker 3:And then she said the next day, I kick myself because she got she's the same thing was happening, and, you know, she was like, alright. That's it. You owe me a lap at recess. And it's easy to think that lap at recess is also in a way proprioception. Like, walking is a little bit of prop.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. But it's punitive prope.
Speaker 1:I like to Yeah. I kinda get it. It's so automatic to just walk, to just run. You know? You're just kinda going through it.
Speaker 3:Yes. And so instead of him being able to free play and probably get a lot more of the input he's seeking, he was in trouble. And so she was like, you know what? I I'm I'm now realizing I need to just get this into our afternoon.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Like, just having the the having more probe in our afternoon is gonna help. So whether that's, you know, a good side squeeze or maybe it's a jumping challenge or like, there's all kinds of ways to do it that will not only dial down some of the, like, consequences behavior Mhmm. That is really draining for everyone involved, but also help this kid have the have the what what I talk about is the upstairs brain on. Mhmm. Have that learning brain engaged
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And not distracted by, like, that agitated feeling that goes with not having a a full cup.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Jessica, I can tell you you really wanna talk about the things teachers can do. I do. I wanna talk about you so much. Hey. We're gonna get there.
Speaker 1:We're gonna get there of the practical things. But real quick, we're gonna take just a quick break. But when we come back with Jessica, we will talk about all of these different ideas that you have for how to help, kids in the classroom, students in the classroom who are seeking that proprioception, additional that additional proprioception input. So listeners, hang out for a minute. We'll be back in a second, and we'll give you some of those great tips.
Speaker 2:Welcome back, everybody, to the second half of this segment of the Innovative Schools podcast. The first section we've been talking with Jessica Sonarski about this big word, proprioception, kind of just defining what it is and, seeing how that seeking that students have of proprioceptive input, can be kind of disruptive in the learning environment. Certain things like, bumping into others, being really fidgety, climbing or crawling on things are just some key warning signs that educators need to be on the lookout. So, Jessica, thank you for joining us in part two.
Speaker 3:Happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Jessica, I so that list that Liz just shared, I had a kind of question about because it it makes me think. A lot of those sound like a lot of those things sound like things I just did as a young boy. Like, I would play rough with others or bump into things on purpose, climb, crawl, you know, whatever, do those kind of things.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So I I kinda have, like, two two parts to my question real quick before we get into the the practical things that teachers can do is how do you distinguish a kid who is seeking proprioception additional input in proprioception sensory, from typical kid or boy behavior versus and and and also just between it sounds like things that you might see in someone who has ADD or ADHD or Sure. How do you distinguish proprioception sensory input from other things? I don't know, Liz, if you Yeah. Maybe you bumped into things too. I was just hanging out with guys all the time.
Speaker 1:So I don't know Totally careless, man. Is not just a boy thing. But, anyway, how do you distinguish? That's really the question.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a good question. And in some ways, I think, for a lot of you who might be listening, you don't necessarily have to. So part of why I am I am passionate about, you know, when in doubt, go pro is that it really is a tier one support.
Speaker 3:Like, almost all students benefit from some kind of movement, stretching, jumping, crashing. You're like Mhmm. Those heavy muscle work, moving their bodies, getting their core involved, like, all of those kinds of things are good for brain and body. Mhmm. There are exceptions.
Speaker 3:There are always exceptions. But in general, those things tend to be helpful. And so when I when I think about, like, general kid behavior or especially, like, what is often seen as, like, boy behavior, I think, again, I come back to that, you know, the modern world often does not provide what what our brains and bodies naturally need.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Screens are no friend of the senses. Screens are no friend to certainly to our hidden senses, to to that proprioception. And so that's I think it can be overwhelming sometimes as an educator. Like, okay. I'm supposed to know about SEL, and I'm supposed to be able to teach reading the way it's supposed to be taught.
Speaker 3:And I now I'm supposed to know about proprioception, like and whether it's ADD or not or what. You don't have to. Like, you don't have to know all of those things. If it if you're curious, there is a lot of overlap between sensory processing challenges and other, like, neurodivergent identities. So a lot of kids who have ADHD also really benefit from understanding their senses better and and having, sensory solutions as part of how they manage their ADHD, like, the the challenges that come with ADHD.
Speaker 3:Autism. Right? When I was in graduate school, I feel like I never heard about the senses except maybe a little bit related to autism. Well, it's not just autistic people who have who may be craving more of certain kinds of sensory input or or less. Right?
Speaker 3:Or who Yeah. Are really overwhelmed by the school environment. And I think of that for our teachers as well. How many teachers are in sensory overload? So I think your question is a good one as far as, wow.
Speaker 3:This just sounds like kid stuff or this just this sounds like something that a psychologist should take care of or you know, I think those are all things that that I have heard and that we wrestle with. And so my encouragement is, I I have really tried to put together some preventative instruction that is good across the board. Mhmm. And For all
Speaker 1:students, not just for one particular group. Exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Sure. So then, let's get into what you've been itching to get to, which is basically, what can a classroom teacher do, to help with with this? And and like you just said is that these are not just things for an individual kid, but it's things that because we can all use brain breaks or a little motion or, you know, whatever to kinda get ourselves back. So, I have a list here.
Speaker 1:Liz and I, we're gonna ask you about some of the the different ones that you have because you have a guide. We'll link that in. We'll talk about that later. You have a whole guide to proprioception that's free online.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:We'll put the link in the show notes. This is a couple of them, but there's there's several more than what what we'll talk about here. So the first one here, offer flexible seating. How does that help with, some of that behavior of the proprioception seeking? You know, maybe they're being a little more disruptive.
Speaker 1:How does Sure. Flexible seating help with that?
Speaker 3:So for flexible seating, I'm thinking of things like, the options to have a standing desk or to lay on the ground, like some kids, you know, a slate desk or lay on the ground or even, having chairs that can rock a little bit that can give them some motion or a tea stool or a a, exercise ball. Right? Some of us do that in adulthood. Like, there's a there's sort of a craze for that. Anyway
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In in the I have a sit stand desk, and I'll just start I'll just go to standing because I want to. That's what I do.
Speaker 3:Yes. So you are giving your brain a little bit more or different input when you stand than when you sit. So for for example, one of my boys, he having that, like, resistance band around his chair legs, like, that gave him something to push against so he wasn't kicking at the desk or kicking the person next to him
Speaker 1:or Yeah.
Speaker 3:Giving that outlet for movement for the kids that need to move can reduce some of the frustrating behavior that comes from a kid that needs to move. Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah. It makes me think of, when I was when I was in school, we didn't have all the options for all the desks and everything, but we would rock back in our chairs. Exactly. We'd push back and then the teachers
Speaker 3:I bet. Yes. We would.
Speaker 1:And the teacher would put the tennis balls on the ends of the chairs, and we'd start slipping and falling and hoping that we wouldn't we'd stop doing that. We didn't. We kept doing it. We probably did it more. But, Liz.
Speaker 1:Liz, what's the next one we got here from Jessica?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So this one actually sounds kind of like a blast. So it says jump to your spot in line and then stretch up. Jessica, tell me about that.
Speaker 3:Yes. So I'm thinking obviously in this one a little bit more on the elementary side of things.
Speaker 1:I think high schools would love this too, honestly. I know. So
Speaker 3:okay. Rachel Cohen is a a high school an AP high school teacher who is online, and she shared that she had a hopscotch rug in her high school AP English class. And I was like, yes. Thank you very much. Like and the and the kids some think it's lame, and some kids use it because it just helps organize the brain.
Speaker 3:So when you get that little bit of motion and the impact of hitting the ground, that that helps your brain and body connect in ways that bring relief and let the thinking brain turn on. So we can we can do it in silly ways, like jump like a kangaroo to your spot in line. And then the reason I I put that instruction of, like, and then stretch up high is that we want to also help kids, get out the energy they need to get out, but then get back to that, like, learning ready state. Mhmm. So sometimes we're I I've seen where teachers are nervous about trying some of these things.
Speaker 3:Well, if I have my kids jump for thirty seconds, then they're gonna, like, lose all control, and I'll never get Yeah. I'll never get the reins back on. You know, and so sometimes we have to sort of coregulate, like, kind of model and give them really clear, fun instructions to get back to calm. Okay. Now pretend you're moving your arms through thick honey and get them all the way down to your sides and put them in your pockets and we're ready to go.
Speaker 3:Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And then we can go out in the hallway instead of, you know, the chaos that it is to try to get kids to line up and and walk through the hallway.
Speaker 1:Shut your mouth and get in line. You know? Yeah.
Speaker 3:I get it, man. It's hard to prangle my three boys and Yeah. You know, when we've got 25
Speaker 1:of them. That's gotta be done. Okay. So this one, I saw, and it just made me hungry, which was make French fry fingers.
Speaker 3:Okay. So if you're listening instead of watching, I'm gonna try to describe this.
Speaker 1:I'm very pretty person. Describe it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So if you if you fold your hands together and, like, crisscross your fingers, then you sort of make these little like, wiggle your fingers. That's your French fries. And so you can then push and pull against your own hand, which gives, dun, da, da, da, proprioception. Uh-huh.
Speaker 3:So you have muscles and joints in your hands, and this becomes something to help kids who are bugging everybody around them
Speaker 1:on their part. To think because I would do this just normally without any input. I'm starting to think that I may have been seeking proprioception sensory input. For those listening, just another way to describe this, I've always described this motion as waffling. If you were to waffle your fingers together, I think you did a good description.
Speaker 1:You're you're interlacing, interlocking your your fingers, but just the waffle, French fry, whatever food is on the menu. But that's great.
Speaker 2:So, the last strategy that I kinda would just love to ask you about, Jessica, is the bubble gum club.
Speaker 3:Okay. Controversial, I know.
Speaker 1:I wasn't allowed to have gum, like, in
Speaker 2:Neither was I.
Speaker 3:That is common to for gum to not be allowed. And so, obviously, if there's a school wide policy or something like that, I'm not saying, you know, break the rules. If if this can be something that is done constructively and with with intention to have a bubble gum club where gum is used as a tool for focus rather than a toy. And so one of the things that's included in that proprioception guide that that we'll link to below is a, literally a form to make a bubblegum club. And so this was super helpful for two of my boys where they they think better when they're chewing on something.
Speaker 3:So for both of them, they went through phases of chewing on their clothes. One of my boys chewed on everything, like, literally ate a book at one point when he was at home. Like, just chewing chewing chewing. We have muscles and joints in our jaws that and and so that motion can be very regulating. If you think about babies and infancy, right, there's a lot of sucking suckling and, and those kinds of things.
Speaker 3:So having a an option like the bubble gum club for kids who need that can be really helpful. If that's totally uncomfortable, maybe you stick with something like mints. So I've had a number of
Speaker 1:That's a good substitute. Yeah. Math teachers.
Speaker 3:Sure. So,
Speaker 1:Means you can't really take off and stick underneath the desk. Exactly. At least not easy.
Speaker 3:Exactly. So I there are a few teachers I've worked with that, like, okay. I just keep my classroom stocked now. And at times of transition or when concentration is kind of drifting, like, outcome the mince, and we pass them around. And it just gives that that little bit of this might sound weird, but organizing input.
Speaker 3:So it gives it that little bit of sensory input that helps the brain settle so it can do its times table. Yeah. You know?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, that completely makes sense. And as you said earlier, that's, I think, what we do, three or four there. There's several more on that document, so make sure to to check that out. Something else that you had in that document that I I want to talk about, because I I I really just love the way that you wrote this.
Speaker 1:But you wrote, it's not us against our students. You and your students are on the same team working to light up the learning brain. One, I I just applaud that reminder that it's not, you're not trying to fight with your students, but you're you're on the same team. You're trying to just build learning and knowledge and confidence and and all these things. There's so many things going on going on that could be going on in the student's life, that it you don't have to look at it as a battle against each other, but you're you're side by side.
Speaker 1:So, one, just a shout out to that. But, also, with that in mind, just what I guess what I'm trying to ask is, we've talked about these what proprioception is. We've talked about ways to incorporate proprioception input into the classroom. But, I mean, what have you seen in the way that incorporating these things actually helps change classroom or learning behavior
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Or and and and that kind of thing? Why kinda why should a teacher care?
Speaker 3:Yes. I think that's a really good question because you guys have a million things on your mind. I think, it it is that it's it's the learning. Right? So when kids' needs are met, they are more able to learn.
Speaker 3:And it's the same for you as an educator. When your needs are met, it's easier for you to teach. And so I think, like, another another way I've seen this play out is there's a a group of pre k educators that I'm working with right now across the district, and, a couple of the classrooms have been, like, have have been quicker to try stuff out and then see, like, oh my gosh. It helps. So they they started getting movement into their, roll call.
Speaker 3:So as they their their kids were struggling with counting. It was not it was not as automatic for this group as it was for some of their previous pre k classes. And so they started pairing movement with counting. And so when, you know, we we call off who's here, and then we count how many that is, and then we do that many, jumps, and then we do that many, like, windmills, and we do that many, you know, claps, and we do And they saw a significant difference in how their morning not only are they working on academics in that moment, but their morning, academic time went better. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:They their kids were able to focus more. Another group was able to see, like, they started incorporating movement during morning announcements because that was the time their kids got really dysregulated because it's this crackly noise. It often doesn't all apply to them. And so they just got some movement involved during morning announcements, and then they didn't have to, like they felt like they were starting over after like, they just got their kids settled, and then they'd have to start over getting kids settled.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Well, when we incorporate PROP, there's more settling that happens. For my son Yeah. He was really struggling in the afternoons, and if he could take a two minute jumping break, like, there was a mini trampoline in someone's office, two minute jumping break, and he could get through math without a problem. Mhmm. It's these it's it's little things.
Speaker 3:It's not like
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You don't have to become an expert in this. It it's it's these little shifts that can make such a big difference, and not just for our littles. So we were kinda joking beforehand.
Speaker 1:And yeah. That is not right. It's not just for the little kids, but Yeah. You know, middle school or high school is adults. Loved.
Speaker 1:Yeah. For sure.
Speaker 3:So I, you know, I'll I would love to hear from you if if this is you, but I really wanna see more punching bags in middle and high school Yeah. Counseling offices or, like, student support centers or whatever because they need that. Yeah. You know? They need that outlet.
Speaker 3:And little did we little did we know, way back when, that's probe.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. That completely makes it. I mean, I even see it just in, my son who's four. Because you I I read through your story.
Speaker 1:We talked about your story a little bit with your son. My son who's four, after reading that, I kinda started before bedtime. I used to be very, like, okay. We need to calm down. But now I'm, like, throwing him into the bed, and he his bedtime is so much better.
Speaker 1:I think it just shows how it is, you know, how helpful it is. And it's not just the four year olds. It's, you know, all of us. I you know, maybe I hopefully, this isn't too far of a jump, but and we said that walking and running isn't it's kinda prope, kinda not, but, you know, just we we've talked for adults. Like, sometimes you just need to get out and walk or you need to go do something.
Speaker 1:You need to use your hands. I'm associating that with with pro like, we can benefit as well. So all all ages.
Speaker 3:All ages. That's exactly right. And I think, what you mentioned with your son with with doing some, like like, playful we used to call them super slams, where we'd, like, throw you know, throw him down on the bed, and it's playful and joyful and full of and full of laughter. And then he could be like, like, that would settle him for sleep. I think there was some something that turned into deescalation means, let's all talk like this and get really When you're agitated and, you know, what I think of as, like, having a tiger moment, when that is happening in you, calm is not what you need.
Speaker 3:You need to discharge the energy. And so giving our students more opportunities to discharge energy. If you have a kid that's acting out, sitting against the wall with their hands in their lap is, like, the worst thing Mhmm. That can happen for them because they're not gonna build that skill. They they're not getting the physical outlet they need, and they're not skill building in the moment.
Speaker 3:It's it's Yeah. You know? So I would I would much rather see a lot a lot of preventive proprioception and see how that dials down the consequences that we have to do or holding accountable that we have to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Jessica, oh my gosh. This has been incredible.
Speaker 2:But before we go, I, I'm just curious for any of our listeners who are maybe wanting to dive a little bit more into this. I hear you have a book that is either coming out or is already out, but we would just love for you to tell us just a little bit more about it.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. So Light Up the Learning Brain, it just celebrated its one year birthday.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 3:So it came out last year, and it is available as a book or also as an audiobook, because I know learning on the go is really helpful, and there's lots of visuals to really bring some of the brain science to life and make things user friendly and and ready to bring into counseling or or classroom practices.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's great. We will we'll put links to that book in the show notes if anyone wants to kinda check that out. Jessica, thank you so much for joining us today. I had a load of fun just talking about probe and or probe to reception, and thank you for defining it and helping us understand just how it can help learning in the classroom.
Speaker 1:You know, I think sometimes that we get caught up in thinking about how, you know, its test scores and learning this and that, and we have all these boxes to check. But, you know, it it sounds like something as easy as hopping to the front of the line or making French fry fingers can help kids, students, be more engaged in class, learn better so that we can send them out into the world to be great, knowledgeable, human beings. Jessica, you also are going to be at the Innovative Schools Summit in Orlando, which is March. So far, listeners just wanted to put out put that out there. You can go to innovativeschoolsummit.com to, sign up for that if you want.
Speaker 1:Jessica, you also do professional development and that kind of thing. We'll link that as well. So if you wanna bring Jessica to your school to to talk about proprioception or any of the other subjects in her book, we'll have those links that you can do that. If you enjoy today's podcast, please rate, review, and share this. We wanna help as many educators as we possibly can, and sharing helps us do that.
Speaker 1:Education is a necessary, difficult, and challenging endeavor, but it's rewarded with the success of our students. And I just wanna encourage everybody with that. We hope you learned something today that you can use in your classroom either later today, later this week, or whenever you find yourself teaching next. Thank you, Jessica, for joining us. Thank you, Liz, for co hosting.
Speaker 1:We'll see you guys on the next episode.
Speaker 2:Thanks, guys. Bye, y'all.
Speaker 3:Y'all.