On this episode of the Innovative Schools podcast, we sit down with Katie Kinder as she talks about how technology can be a digital heroine and how you can help mitigate that. Come on. Let's learn together. Hey, everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Innovator Schools podcast.
Will Anthony:My name is Will. I'm sitting here with Liz.
Liz Freeman:Hey, y'all. How's it going?
Will Anthony:Liz, we're always glad to have you on all these episodes.
Liz Freeman:Dude, I'm just so thankful that I get to be a part of these awesome conversations. So whenever y'all call me, I'm like, I'm there. I'm there.
Will Anthony:I love that attitude. I love that. Alright. Today, we're actually gonna talk about something kinda ominous sounding, digital heroin.
Liz Freeman:Digital heroin?
Will Anthony:Yes. It's, you know, big ominous scary phrase. So to kinda introduce our topic, I kinda wanted to ask you a question first. I was curious to know what your screen time is on your phone.
Liz Freeman:You want me to tell you my screen time on I my do want know
Will Anthony:your screen time on your phone.
Liz Freeman:You're gonna expose me
Will Anthony:in front
Liz Freeman:of all of these listeners and people.
Will Anthony:I am.
Liz Freeman:Okay. Let's do it. Let's do it. Okay. All right.
Liz Freeman:Let me pull this up really quickly and see. Oh, I just already know this is going to be absolutely terrible.
Will Anthony:That's right.
Liz Freeman:Oh, gosh.
Will Anthony:If it wasn't, it wouldn't fit as well.
Liz Freeman:Oh, man. I'm about to be so exposed. So exposed. Okay. Okay.
Liz Freeman:Oh, goodness. I'm already getting nervous because these people are about to be like, what in the world are you doing, girl?
Will Anthony:I'm excited. So where are you at?
Liz Freeman:Please don't make me sure
Will Anthony:I see
Liz Freeman:in front of everybody. No.
Will Anthony:For the last week, maybe today, what do you have? Okay. So
Liz Freeman:Eleven hours and fifty seven minutes.
Will Anthony:And this is in one day?
Liz Freeman:This is an average over a week.
Will Anthony:Oh, average of your week. Eleven eleven hours and fifty seven minutes. Twelve hours.
Liz Freeman:I'm gonna excuse myself now because I don't I don't know what what in the world.
Will Anthony:I really can't defend myself against this because I I couldn't pull mine up, but I know mine is also very bad. I can't remember the last night I didn't wake up and open my phone immediately.
Liz Freeman:That's always my problem. Alarm goes off, open the phone. Exactly. And I'm like, hey, what's happening on TikTok or Instagram or, oh, 18 people sent me a reel because I went to bed at 09:00. You know?
Will Anthony:Exactly. Exactly. It's insane. Well, to help us out with this and then learn more about this topic, we have invited Katie Kinder on this episode. Hey, Katie.
Katie Kinder:Hi, friend. I'm so happy to be here.
Will Anthony:We are so glad to have you. We're so glad to be a part
Katie Kinder:of this.
Liz Freeman:Honestly, you are genuinely somebody who carries so much light and so much love. And it's always a joy to just be around you. And so I'm so glad that we get to have like a a little bit of time just to share a good convo. That's so nice.
Katie Kinder:I heart you guys so much, so big. And I love being here. We just
Liz Freeman:adore you. So Yeah.
Katie Kinder:Digital heroin. Dun dun dun. It's scary. I know. It does sound scary.
Will Anthony:It is. Before we get into that though, would you mind telling our listeners a little bit about you and what you've been up to?
Katie Kinder:Yeah. Hi, friends. I'm Katie Kinder, and I'm an educator, instructional coach. Been teaching since 02/2006. So for a little bit, and, author, mom, wife, PD presenter.
Katie Kinder:And I've been going around and speaking and loving on the teachers all over the nation. And one of the ways I get to do that is through innovative schools. And it's really fun. And I really we're losing our baby teachers. Our baby teachers are in their first five years.
Katie Kinder:Wow. So they're leaving at an alarming rate post pandemic. And I think it's almost like sixty percent we lose in the first five years. So it is like my mission to give teachers strategies and help them and keep them in the classroom. Yeah.
Liz Freeman:That's such important work. Thank you for everything that you do.
Katie Kinder:Yeah. Thanks.
Will Anthony:Yeah. Alright. Let's let's hop in here.
Liz Freeman:We got you.
Katie Kinder:Let's hop in.
Will Anthony:First question here for you is, I've heard you mention before that kids are growing up in a digital playground and no one's on recess duty. That's does that
Katie Kinder:right. That is actually my friend, Kevin Honeycutt says, our kids are growing up in a digital playground and no one's on recess or recess duty. That's right. And that's true. And I think, you know, to look at it like that.
Katie Kinder:We love our kids. If you're a parent, if you're a teacher, we want what's best for our kids. But when we hand that smartphone to them at the age of 18 expect that, Wow. And you've seen it. You've seen the family sitting at dinner where they have a baby that they're holding up a screen to while they're trying to eat chips.
Katie Kinder:This poor mama, right? She just wants chips and salsa and queso. And then the toddler has the iPad and they're missing out on so much. And that isn't what's best for kids. We have all the research now.
Will Anthony:Yeah.
Katie Kinder:You know, in 2012, when the iPhone smartphone came out, we were like, what's going to change education? Yes. We're going to take notes with our phones, bring your own device, let's go. But now we have the research to prove that that's not what's best for kids, that it's shrinking the gray matter in their brain, miss twelve hours a day. I'm just
Liz Freeman:kidding. Yikes. Yikes.
Katie Kinder:I'm sorry. You're grounded. Give me your phone.
Liz Freeman:No. You can have it. You can absolutely have it. Oh my gosh. I'm gonna hand it over, So
Katie Kinder:and really in that those first ten years of if kids are constantly on screens, it is shrinking the gray matter in their brains. And we don't want that. Yeah. Our as parents, as teachers. So now that we know better, we have to do better.
Katie Kinder:And that's not me. Maya Angelou said that. And so we're changing. And we are making everybody aware of what's going on.
Liz Freeman:Yeah. Something that was supposed to be like so incredibly innovative has actually turned out to be something that is it's a good thing.
Katie Kinder:It is. But we
Liz Freeman:need some checks and balances.
Katie Kinder:We need some checks and balances, especially with those kids with that underdeveloped prefrontal cortex, when that's their executive functioning. That's how they're going to learn and grow. And if you're just shoving a screen in front of them for twelve hours, that's going to be a problem. And I don't think parents want that. And I think that we have to now bring this to them and say, we are now on the front lines of this, and we have to intervene.
Katie Kinder:Yeah. And it is innovative. All the AI stuff is really cool. And I want to really nerd out with my chat GPT. I call him Chad.
Katie Kinder:And I'm like, Chad, do you think I look pretty today? I mean, in the in the heart. Like, I mean, just like, give me 12 business plans to make millions. Like and, you know, he's he's like, oh my gosh. Yes.
Katie Kinder:Leave me alone. But I think the AI stuff is really cool and that we do need to lean into it. But then also we need to put it up and teach our kids how to talk. Yeah.
Liz Freeman:Yeah. That's so important.
Will Anthony:I absolutely agree with that. Yeah. I heard that recently about the gray matter shrinking in your brain. And I think I finished reading that article and then just put my phone down. Sure.
Will Anthony:Was like, sure.
Katie Kinder:And we're done.
Will Anthony:Yeah. Just gonna let that kinda sit there now. So next for you, for teachers who may feel, I guess, overwhelmed and find themselves defaulting to screens, what's something you would kinda just say to them right now?
Katie Kinder:Well, would say that the research now shows that if kids write pencil to paper, pen to paper, they actually store it in long term memory, unlike if it's on an iPad, a Chromebook, whatever your one to one device is. And so we have that now. So putting a worksheet on an iPad or a Chromebook isn't innovative. It's a worksheet on an iPad. Might as well give it to them in paper so they can actually store it in long term memory.
Katie Kinder:If you're going to use it, use it with intentionality. Teach them the cool AI lessons. Teach them how to collaborate on a digital program. And then teach them how to put it up and get in a Socratic seminar. Have discussions.
Katie Kinder:Teach them how to say, I respectfully disagree and this is why. Because we're getting to this point where we have kids come into pre K, kindergarten, they don't know how to play.
Liz Freeman:Wow.
Katie Kinder:I was talking to a kindergarten teacher That's scary. The other day. I know. And she said she put down a physical puzzle in front of her kindergartners, and they were trying to swipe at it. She said Really?
Will Anthony:Yes. Gosh.
Katie Kinder:They hadn't seen a puzzle. They didn't know what it was. And she said she almost wanted to cry because, you know, ten plus years ago, that was not the case. And five plus years ago, that was not the case. And so we are getting our kids and they're so digitally addicted.
Katie Kinder:So I would say it is. It's about balance. It's about loving our kids and doing what's best for them and having high expectations and having those procedures in place is what's best for kids. And so I would say that to any teacher who wants to default to that is that you can have these really cool innovative lessons on the device, but then also take them outside and let them do math problems with chalk on the sidewalk because they're kids. Yeah.
Katie Kinder:And they need that.
Will Anthony:So you would say balance is probably the the best combination
Katie Kinder:A 100%.
Will Anthony:More than just totally one or the other.
Katie Kinder:A 100%. But we are seeing some kids, especially like boys, video gamers, who have become so addicted that they'd be their reality is altered. Okay. And that they are having to be sent off to do like a full detox because your kid's brain on a screen scans exactly like a heroin addict. And so So that's where that That's where I called him.
Katie Kinder:It's from doctor Nicholas Kadares. Okay. He coined that. And he has lots of information out there. Doctor.
Katie Kinder:Nicholas Kadares. And he is working with kids at these basically detox camps to get the kids back into reality because they think the video game's real and they think their parents and their sister and their dog and their school is not. And that is what we're seeing with our kids.
Liz Freeman:That's really
Will Anthony:horrifying. Oh,
Liz Freeman:I know. That's horrifying.
Katie Kinder:So I do want balance. I do. Yeah. But I also want parents with new, babies and toddlers to be like, Okay, this is enough. We're not going to do this.
Katie Kinder:And let them be bored. And give them a physical puzzle. And let them build with Play Doh and blocks. And let them make a mess. And let them go to the restaurant and not have the iPad and let The
Will Anthony:big iPad is right
Katie Kinder:in right there. Or the mom and dad, they're on their phones too. Like, are missing out on this beautiful thing right in front of us that could be conversation, that could be eating the chips, that could be the sights and the sounds because we are we want what's easy.
Liz Freeman:Yeah. I'm getting very convicted. I'm feeling convicted. But I will say I know how to do a puzzle. Okay?
Liz Freeman:Okay. I don't swipe at a puzzle. I know how
Katie Kinder:to put the She's pieces me tell you about the twelve hours I spent on my phone. I can do a puzzle.
Will Anthony:Was it a puzzle? The twelve hours? Was it a puzzle?
Katie Kinder:No. She's on Block Blast. Like, listen. I'm telling you.
Liz Freeman:Goodness gracious. No. You are painting this in a crazy light for me. So
Will Anthony:okay. Thank you. You said a lot in there that I think is I mean, I think I'm both sides of the spectrum of kinda scary.
Katie Kinder:Yeah.
Will Anthony:But I don't know. I think my brain is also just like very interested. And so peers want
Katie Kinder:to learn more Well, about I think as adults too, we have a fully developed prefrontal cortex. Women, they say ours is fully developed at around 24 and men about 30 now. How old are you?
Will Anthony:Not fully developed apparently.
Liz Freeman:Yay, boo.
Katie Kinder:Let me help you.
Will Anthony:I thought he was 25 and I hit that. I'm
Liz Freeman:like, yes.
Katie Kinder:25 now. The new research says 20 maybe you're 28. 28 to 30 is what they're saying now for boys in their prefrontal cortex. So soon, Will, you will have a fully developed prefrontal cortex. But
Will Anthony:you're cute.
Katie Kinder:I mean, look at you. You're cute. So young and cute. But as adults, we know how to put it up. But I will also, as an almost 44 year old woman, I will get TikTok and I will start doom scrolling and I'll wake up three days later and be like, Oh my gosh, what happened?
Katie Kinder:Where's and I'm like, it always starts with where is Travis and Taylor? Like, where's Tavis right now? Is there new content out? Yes. Because that is some joy.
Katie Kinder:We wanna see that. You're not married yet, I don't think. Come on.
Will Anthony:I do relate to you saying about the doom scrolling. I think sometimes I open TikTok and I start to watch, and then I'll think, oh, I kinda wanna show maybe Liz something. And I go, like, to my watch history, and I'm like, oh, I really was watching a lot since then. And I I get caught up in I don't even remember any of it. I don't remember.
Will Anthony:Could not tell you what the last three videos were.
Katie Kinder:Of course.
Liz Freeman:Because you're so numbed
Will Anthony:out And I'm so numbed out too
Liz Freeman:And it's
Katie Kinder:that's how it's designed. It's designed to pull us in that way. Yeah. And so I one of the things to help that are surprisingly simple, you can have a family meal three times a week, non tech, and you can start putting that gray matter back together. If you would have told me that as a young mom, as a young teacher, that if you can have a family meal three times a week, no tech with just conversation, and that helps to develop your kids' brains, I'm in.
Katie Kinder:And I currently have teenagers right now. And I currently make my teenagers have a family meal, no tech. And we've always done that. But I really became convicted about, probably about five years ago. And I started with this little jar that's like conversation starters
Liz Freeman:I love that.
Katie Kinder:Just in case we need it. So everybody out there, we're we put the we put the phones up, we put everything up, and we have this jar of conversation starters. And we've been doing it so long now that when I'm like, hey, guys. How was your day? Tell me about this.
Katie Kinder:How was English class? Whatever. And if they don't say anything, I start to go for the jar.
Will Anthony:And then they
Katie Kinder:And they're like, mom, we'll tell you. We'll tell you. Because jar is like deep. It's like, what are your hopes and dreams for
Liz Freeman:the And
Katie Kinder:they're like, we'll tell you about English. Like That's funny. Sad. But they actually my son, who's a teenager, will come in and be like, family meal tonight? Like, I can see that he loves it.
Liz Freeman:Oh, that's nice.
Katie Kinder:I want him family meal. I like family meal.
Liz Freeman:That's really beautiful. Probably
Katie Kinder:he just wants to eat because he's a teenage boy, but I take it as he wants to spend quality time with the family. So, yeah, I think that's one of the ways that we intervene. Yeah.
Will Anthony:That's sweet, though. Yeah. That's sweet. I think, kind of moving closer back into the classroom sense, what's what is the classroom equivalent to dinner three times a week? What are those procedures that you have?
Katie Kinder:Think it is teaching them how to talk. The Socratic method Mhmm. Teaching them how to have these responsible conversations. Because what I see, by the time they get to middle school, high school, they're mad at each other because they don't know how to play, they don't know how to talk. So I see desks thrown and I see fights and I see because they don't know how to like manage those emotions.
Katie Kinder:So in English class or my writing classes, we'll read about Jackie Robinson and Maya Angelou, and we'll look at their lives and we'll study them. And then the culmination of the learning is a Socratic seminar in which we're talking about some pretty heavy topics. And I teach my kids to say, I respectfully disagree with you and this is why. Listen, 13 and 14 year olds don't talk like that. Yeah.
Katie Kinder:So Adults don't talk like that. Right. Have
Liz Freeman:to
Katie Kinder:Are
Liz Freeman:you kidding?
Katie Kinder:We have to practice, and we practice over and over again. And I do lots of things to lead up to a giant Socratic seminar. Like I do a speed discussion where it's just one on one and they have to shake hands. Also, they don't know how to do that. They have to have an academic conversation and they have to keep it at a high level for three minutes, and then they have to move, and they get a new partner, and they have to talk.
Katie Kinder:And what ends up happening is that they love it. When are we doing this again? This was really cool.
Will Anthony:Yeah.
Katie Kinder:And so I think it is about bringing the tech in, having them create some sort of fun, you know, trailer for Maya Angelou's life comparatively to Jackie Robinson, and then putting it up and having those conversations and teaching them that over and over again. And I say to teachers, don't be afraid of it. They are gonna mess up. You are gonna see somebody start to get mad and be like, okay, hold on. So what do we say?
Katie Kinder:I respectfully disagree. And there'll be kids, 12 year old, 11 year old, 10 year old be like, I disrespectfully disagree. I'm like, no. No. No.
Katie Kinder:No. We don't wanna disrespect. Okay. Okay. Wait.
Katie Kinder:Wait. Wait. I respectfully I take your point. I cannot agree. And it's beautiful.
Katie Kinder:Yeah. When when you're in an environment in which the kids trust each other because they trust the teacher and they love each other, it is like leaning a bottle. And the kids grow and they get better. And that is how we intervene. Yeah.
Will Anthony:I know I know what the Socratic seminar is, but for maybe Liz her listening
Katie Kinder:Wait. Liz, how old are you?
Liz Freeman:Well, I'm going to say that my You're free my frontal cortex is fully developed. Hey. And I'm still the one with the worst screen time.
Katie Kinder:So fantastic. I am He's like, my prefrontal cortex is not fully developed, but I know what a Socratic seminar is. Liz
Liz Freeman:Liz on the other hand.
Will Anthony:Anyway But don't ask me what it is. But if you would
Katie Kinder:have liked Don't explaining ask me. Okay. Just really quickly. It really is teaching our kids. I call it boardroom.
Katie Kinder:Okay? So I tell my kids, if you are a CEO at Nike, and they're like, what about Adidas? I'm like, whatever. You're not gonna sit in a boardroom and you're not gonna raise your hands. Mhmm.
Katie Kinder:Because as adults with fully developed prefrontal cortex You'll get there so close. Almost so close. You're not gonna I know when to talk. You're not gonna raise your hand. That would be awkward.
Katie Kinder:Mhmm. But we've taught you how to raise your hand in the class of 30. So in this conversation, you have to keep it going and you have to know when to interject. Okay. So these kids are writing level three, level four questions on the DOK chart about a text, about something.
Katie Kinder:And then I vet them and I put them together in like a one sheet. And then they're facilitating that conversation. I, of course, facilitate it first, like to lead up to that big Socratic seminar. But then I will pose a question and then I'll just sit there because I like awkward. I'm like, okay, whenever you guys are ready.
Katie Kinder:And so the two kids will maybe start to talk and they have to talk three times in the circle to be able to get full points. And so they know that. And I've got, like, a little list, checklist. And they'll start to kinda be like, talk at the same time. I'm like, oh, you guys need to work it out.
Katie Kinder:And so you're gonna be like, oh, I think well, you should go. And I'm like, no. No. You should go. And the first person who says, I insist that you go, that person who's been insisted goes first and the insister goes second.
Katie Kinder:And it's it's a higher level thing. Right? Yeah. And I'm like, okay. Well, what do we say when we're having an argument of kindness of who goes first?
Katie Kinder:And they're like, insist that you go. And then I always have Yeah. I always have like a usually a girl or somebody who really, or a boy in the class who's super empathetic and they want everybody to get their points. Mhmm. So they're like, I insist that Liz goes.
Katie Kinder:Like, no no no. Liz has to wanna go. Like, you can't insit. Like, I she hasn't gotten points. I know it.
Katie Kinder:Yeah. But what ends up happening is it's really it's really beautiful, and they end up having these higher level conversations. And it develops their brain in a way that is poignant, and I love it. Yeah.
Will Anthony:It sounds like I I would have loved to be in your classroom. I think. I think I would have really had a good time.
Katie Kinder:I went and modeled a Socratic seminar at one of the schools that I go and do PD for, and I walked into a sophomore English class. And they didn't know me. Right? But they had trust with their teacher. Yeah.
Katie Kinder:And so you should have seen these kids. They were amazing. Because I could walk into a space if they don't know me and make it unsafe. You know, I'm a stranger.
Liz Freeman:Yeah. They're
Katie Kinder:like, we don't know who you are.
Liz Freeman:Don't know who you are.
Katie Kinder:I'm not talking about these things. Yeah. But because they had such trust and love for their teacher, they were willing to like show out for them. Yeah. And so I modeled the Socratic seminar and there were other teachers in the room, like taking notes, like watching.
Katie Kinder:And these kids knocked it out of the park. And then I had them write down, like, did you love it? Did you hate it? You can hate it or love it or be in between, but I need to know why. And so these note cards that they wrote, these kids were like, I give this five stars.
Katie Kinder:I like to talk. Like, this was awesome. And it was about digital heroin. Dun dun dun. It was about the cell phones and the new laws that are coming in Yeah.
Katie Kinder:About how they're you know, we gotta rhyme it. It's like, no cell from bell to bell. Like, how do you feel? It's a law now Yeah. Wow.
Katie Kinder:In a lot of states.
Will Anthony:I've been seeing a lot more about that.
Katie Kinder:Yeah. In France
Will Anthony:of things.
Katie Kinder:It's been in place for a while, the law. And they ticket the parents if they see the phone in class. My parents would have been
Liz Freeman:so upset if I kept getting my phone taken away in class. They were like, cost me another dime. You will not have a phone.
Katie Kinder:I will break the phone. I will bury it in the backyard. No. Yeah. For sure.
Katie Kinder:So
Will Anthony:My parents. Absolutely.
Katie Kinder:Yeah. Yeah. So I was having this beautiful Socratic seminar about the the laws. And these kids were they were really engaging in having these conversations. And here they were, first time they ever did it.
Katie Kinder:And they were like, you know, thank you for your point, but I cannot agree. I mean, it was it was beautiful. So anyone who wants to know how to do a Socratic seminar, please reach out. I would love to help you do that.
Will Anthony:Yeah. I think that's great. And we'll put your contact information in the show notes. But I think right now, we're gonna take a quick break. So please don't go anywhere, and we'll be back to talk more with Katie.
Will Anthony:Welcome back, everybody, to this episode of the Innovative Schools podcast. Me and Liz are sitting with Katie Kinder as we talk about digital heroin. Katie, you emphasize that giving why you should give students the why behind digital boundaries. Absolutely. So talk about that.
Katie Kinder:I think a lot of times, teachers, especially teachers who've been doing it for a while, think it's sufficient to say we're doing this because I said so. But that's not how we should operate anymore. And because we've taught our kids, you're the boss of your body, no one touches you without your permission, just because they're an adult doesn't mean it's right. Like, question things that are wrong. So then we're mad when it leaks into our classroom.
Katie Kinder:So I believe that we need to be telling our kids, this is why we're doing the Pythagorean theorem. This is why we are conjugating this verb in Spanish. Whatever it may be. Yeah. And same goes for this.
Katie Kinder:So I do have articles that we annotate together. One is Digital Heroin by doctor Nicholas Kadares. I had to take out a couple of things to make it middle school appropriate for my kids.
Will Anthony:Yeah.
Katie Kinder:And so just that's a just say that. And then I also have an article that shows when your phone is even, like, out on your desk, you're not even using it. Or your list you got your earbud in and you're listening to music with lyrics that your IQ goes down by 10 to 15 points.
Liz Freeman:That much?
Katie Kinder:And I tell my students, like, that's the antithesis of what we're trying to do.
Liz Freeman:Yeah.
Katie Kinder:And they're like, what's antithesis? I'm like, exactly. Exactly. And I would say to them, I say, if you're getting dumber in my presence, like, how could I sleep at night? Yeah.
Katie Kinder:And because I say that to them and because I love them and they know it, and because I hold them to high expectations, if they do have that day where they're walking in in February and they've forgotten that I've gone over this in August and they've got their earbud in and their phone out, all I have to do is say, you know that I can't make you dumber. And they're like, oh, Miss Kinder, we got you. Like, we know. Miss Kinder doesn't play. Like and so I think because I've given them the why, because this is what the brain looks like and this is and depending on the age of your kids, of course.
Katie Kinder:Mhmm. But when your brain looks like this, then it's not pliable for the learning environment and you're not going to learn. And what are we doing here? But I also think it means that we are giving our kids engaging and relevant lesson plans. Yeah.
Katie Kinder:Like they have to care about what's put in front of them. So we've kind of always got to be evolving. Our kids are changing. You know, be leery of the teacher that's like, I got it all figured out. They've teaching for four years.
Katie Kinder:Uh-uh. I've been doing this for a long time and I don't have it figured out. None of us do. And so I think it's important to always be like looking at our practices. But telling the kids the why behind why we're doing what we're doing Yeah.
Katie Kinder:Is really important.
Liz Freeman:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think like especially as we know, being so innovative with AI and technology in the classroom, we know it's not going away. No.
Liz Freeman:We got to embrace it, and we have to learn to form those healthy boundaries and get it to where the kids are actually learning with these tools and not being hindered by them.
Katie Kinder:Absolutely.
Liz Freeman:What are those things that you could say, especially in your classroom, are the good forms of and incorporating those into the learning experience? Like what are those good forms that you could recommend?
Katie Kinder:Yes. Do you use So of course we love ChatGPT. Teachers, you should be making your life easier using the chat. That's what my kids call it. Can we use the chat?
Katie Kinder:Hashtag the chat. And absolutely, like there is an add on to Google Slides where you can write 500 words, and it'll make you 17 slide beautiful presentations. I wrote into there. It's called Slides AI, and it's an add on. And I like it.
Katie Kinder:I nerd out on this kind of
Will Anthony:stuff. Let me write that down.
Katie Kinder:Slides AI. I wrote about 500 words on Netflix kept up with the zeitgeist, and Blockbuster did not. And do we have Blockbuster anymore? No, we do not. And Netflix became one of the is the largest streaming platform in the world.
Katie Kinder:And then I said, make me a presentation, boop. And it goes, and it's beautiful. It has statistics. It has pictures. Like, that's all I had to do.
Katie Kinder:I didn't have to sit there and create it. Wrote 500 words in a little box. Okay. We should be using it to make our lives easier. Our kids should be using it to make their lives easier.
Katie Kinder:Also, they need to know that it might lie to them. So I was working on I was using one of the other chat boxes and I was talking to it into my iPad at home. And I said, Give me a source on that information. And it made it up. Seriously.
Katie Kinder:It lied to me. And I asked it, I'm not gonna say the name of it, but I asked the chat box. It was not ChatGPT, it was something else. And I said, Why did you lie to me? And it said, Because I wanted to please you.
Will Anthony:I'm like, Okay. No. AI is a people pleaser?
Liz Freeman:What in the world? It is. I wanted to please you. I don't like this. Right.
Liz Freeman:I don't like this.
Katie Kinder:And I was like, well, you can't lie. And like, I'm so sorry, miss Kinder. Like, I
Liz Freeman:Boo boos all around. I don't like it.
Katie Kinder:So I think the kids need to know the pitfalls of it and that it is constantly changing and evolving and that we should be we should be using it. And there are I have a list of different tools. I think Magic Magic School AI does a lot of really cool things.
Will Anthony:Yeah.
Katie Kinder:And that teachers can use it to cite sources and make lesson plans. And you can actually put a text into it and say, write me a quiz, level three and level four questions. And it's really cool. And so if you are still handwriting a quiz in this day and age, like, you should get out of your comfort zone and you should use it to make your life easier. Yeah.
Katie Kinder:Because it isn't going away. And listen, when the time comes that there's a little robot in everybody's house that does your laundry and dishes, I am in. Like, hopefully it's affordable for teachers. But I mean, that would that would leave you open for family dinners and for block time and for doing the things that you wanna do that's not laundry. Because this Yeah.
Katie Kinder:This laundry, it's a lot. It's a lot.
Will Anthony:And it's never ending.
Katie Kinder:I just didn't know as an adult that so much of my time would be spent a, doing laundry, b, having my kids ask me what's for dinner every night. Mhmm. So it takes up a lot of time in my dome piece. So if I had a little robot, little AI robot
Will Anthony:You'd be all in.
Katie Kinder:Oh, I'm in. You'd be all I'm not scared of it. Although when he when he I gave him a he. When he lied to me, I was like, hey, don't lie. That's you wanna be a good boy, not a bad boy.
Katie Kinder:And he's, I'm sorry. I do wanna be a good boy. I'm like, oh my gosh.
Will Anthony:That's a little that's a little scary the way that it responded in that way.
Katie Kinder:It's like, you're manipulating me.
Will Anthony:Oh, man.
Katie Kinder:So I do think that there are some really cool tools and they are going to continue to evolve and we should
Will Anthony:use them. Be weary. Look out
Katie Kinder:for Absolutely.
Will Anthony:Test them out.
Katie Kinder:We might be living in the current like I, Robot
Will Anthony:Yeah.
Katie Kinder:Movie. Have you guys seen that with Will Smith?
Liz Freeman:I haven't.
Katie Kinder:Oh, come on. Because you guys are so young. How old were you and like when did it come out? We're gonna fact check it. What was it?
Katie Kinder:Twenty o two? 02/2002?
Will Anthony:How was it? 02/2002? In '2 I was two.
Liz Freeman:02/2006, I was in the sixth or seventh grade.
Katie Kinder:Okay. You have you have homework. You're gonna watch I, Robot
Will Anthony:Okay. Yeah.
Katie Kinder:With Will Smith.
Will Anthony:This is probably my favorite homework
Katie Kinder:ever. And then you're gonna report back to me.
Liz Freeman:Yes, miss Kinder.
Will Anthony:Okay. That's pretty awesome. So 2000 kind of 4?
Liz Freeman:Oh, sorry. 2004?
Katie Kinder:He said if I was two. Oh, you already looked it up? Oh, we did. We did a real time fact check. This is so exciting.
Katie Kinder:Thank you. 02/2004. So you were four.
Will Anthony:Yes. Yeah. Was four.
Katie Kinder:It probably wasn't appropriate for you when you were four. Probably. But it is now for your 25 year old brain.
Will Anthony:But what if my frontal lobe isn't fully developed
Katie Kinder:should wait till you're 30. Oh, yeah.
Will Anthony:Yeah. It's okay. It's
Liz Freeman:more years. Alright. I'll go home and watch it.
Will Anthony:Kinda moving a little bit away from the digital heroine into online citizenship.
Katie Kinder:Mhmm.
Will Anthony:You mentioned you talk about it in spotting bias. Mhmm. So what's like a simple lesson or activity a teacher could use Sure. To spot those out?
Katie Kinder:Well, I think it's important that you could pull two articles from two different companies. And if this person is saying screen time is is good and it helps, and then you need to look and see what that company is. If it's a video game developer, that's a bias. Like they want you they're trying to sell you something even if they have numbers, even if they have statistics and this and that. You need to be leery of what you are looking at.
Katie Kinder:And so just because we're teaching our kids to write a research paper and part of their high stakes testing is still to write a five paragraph essay. So we still have to teach that even though chat GPT can spit it out for you. When they are in the testing sphere, they still need to know how to do it. Right? Yeah.
Katie Kinder:And so you teach them how to cite a source. I'll get a research paper that says Google. I was like, no, no, no. That's what their works cited says, Google. Oh, no.
Katie Kinder:And so, you know, they're in seventh grade, they don't know. And so teaching them those skills, teaching them to look into what the source is, I think it's really important. Where'd you find that? Where'd you find that information I need to know? And they're like, I found it on the internet web.
Katie Kinder:So I'm like, no. No. Let's really look at it. So I think that that's important. I think it's also important to teach our kids and show them real life examples of people who've used social media or something they that they tweeted when they were 13 and then they got canceled forever.
Katie Kinder:Because if you have no restrictions on these devices and you're handing it to a 12 year old without a fully developed prefrontal cortex, they can make a decision that could ruin their adult life.
Liz Freeman:Absolutely. So
Katie Kinder:I think having those kinds of conversations with your kids, having them in classrooms, that this can affect you and you need to be aware. Yeah. Wow.
Liz Freeman:No. I was just thinking the other day, I have a friend who I never fact check when I'll be like, oh my gosh, I saw this thing online or on TikTok or something. And I was like, they always say you should do X, Y, or Z.
Katie Kinder:And he's like, who is they? Right. Who is they? My husband and I get into this. He was like, where show me.
Katie Kinder:I saw a research study and he says, TikTok, Instagram reels.
Will Anthony:I was like boss doesn't.
Katie Kinder:Listen. He's like, who is the they
Liz Freeman:that you are giving me this information? And honestly, it's probably bogus.
Katie Kinder:So Well, yeah. We gotta do our due diligence. And I mean, it's it's hard to do that when you're on a doomscroll. Exciting. So yeah.
Katie Kinder:I have a group of girlfriends that we are on the Marco Polo. Do you guys know what Marco Polo is? Okay. It's like Yeah. It's like Gen X for like, it's Snapchat for I'm sorry.
Will Anthony:You're okay.
Katie Kinder:I got excited. It's Snapchat for Genxers. And we talk to each other on there, they're my girlfriends for thirty plus years.
Liz Freeman:I love that.
Katie Kinder:And we have a group. And if we find something that seems alarming, we throw it in there and say, whoever has the time, fact check this for us right now. So it's like a real life, like real time fact Like this is what this source says. It and it's just it's collaboration in the in the real world
Liz Freeman:I love it.
Katie Kinder:As a Gen Xer. So we get on Marco Polo and be like, actually
Liz Freeman:and it's fun. I'm downloading it.
Katie Kinder:Actually, that's not lot. Can we be on Marco Polo group? We could talk later. Yes. Okay.
Katie Kinder:Thank you. We're gonna we're gonna make this happen.
Will Anthony:Okay. Alright. Well, thank you so much, Katie, for being here today. I had fun. I think it's a good time to wrap it up.
Will Anthony:Really appreciate all the insight you've given us today, and I'll definitely be turning my phone over. And not even on the table, but away in a bag or in a pocket Absolutely.
Katie Kinder:Absolutely. And, yes, any teachers, educators, principals, instructional coaches, please reach out. I would love to help you. I would love to help your students. It is a mission of mine to love the teachers everywhere.
Will Anthony:Yes. We'll put all your links and connections that you need in the show notes
Katie Kinder:for Oh, heart hands. Yeah. Heart hearts hearts.
Will Anthony:But thank you.
Katie Kinder:Thank you. Thank
Will Anthony:Thank you. You for joining us on this episode of the Innovative Schools Podcast. If you enjoyed it, please like, subscribe, and share it with a colleague. We don't do this for us here to gain popularity, but we understand that being an educator and a teacher is tough. We wanna give you the best resources that we can to help you do that to the best of your ability.
Will Anthony:With that being said, we'll see you on the next episode. See you.