On this episode of the Innovative Schools podcast, we're sitting down with Brian Dinkins to define emotional intelligence and how to build the skills in yourself and your students to improve academics. Come on. Let's learn together. Hey, everybody. Welcome to this episode.
Jordan Bassett:The first episode of the Innovative Schools podcast in season three.
Will Anthony:Oh, yeah. We're excited.
Jordan Bassett:Dude, I'm seriously, season three. It's not that I didn't think we'd get there, but it's just crazy that we are there now.
Will Anthony:That we are here now. Yeah.
Jordan Bassett:Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was thinking the other day just about some of the teachers that I had, growing up. And our guest today, who we'll introduce in a minute Mhmm. Is kind of, special not kind of.
Jordan Bassett:He is a specialist in emotional intelligence. But I was thinking about my teachers, and, this question came up, I was curious to know what your answer would be, which is, when you think on the best teachers you had growing up, what was it about the way that they handled people, not content, that made them kind of like that unforgettable or like stuck in your brain?
Will Anthony:Oh, that's a good question. Well, one story that definitely sticks out is I've actually mentioned him before on the podcast is mister Longcar. Mhmm. He was a high school history teacher of mine, and I just had some life things going on, and he just he he he told me to stay after class, you know, and he's like, Will, like, you mind staying as the bell rings? You know, everybody in the class was like, oh, you know?
Will Anthony:But he, you know, he sat me down and we had a conversation about some stuff that had been going on in my life and he just really just really helped, you know, comfort me. And we were desk to desk apart, but really made me feel like it was, you know, it was safe and seen and heard. And and I think he even forgave some homework, so it was pretty cool. Yeah. That's mine for sure.
Jordan Bassett:I had a actually, think about college. I had a professor in in college that he was from Africa, had the most amazing accent. And it was so warm hearted the way that he would talk to each of us individually to kinda hear listen and ask not just how we're doing the content, but, like, just wanted to know how things are going with our lives how things are going with, it was a small class. But how, we were just handling the stresses of college and the things that we were learning. And just like he would ask about my parents.
Jordan Bassett:Like, never met my parents. He doesn't know anything about my parents. But he would just he's like, are your parents? How are they doing? Like, what do they do?
Jordan Bassett:Yeah. And just like listen to what I had to say. And then he would like tie those back into content that we were learning as well. Nice. But today we have I teased a little bit earlier.
Will Anthony:But we
Jordan Bassett:have Brian Dinkins
Will Anthony:Doctor sitting over Brian.
Jordan Bassett:I apologize. Doctor Brian Dinkins.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:What's going on, gentlemen?
Jordan Bassett:Hey, man. We're good. Did you have a teacher or something that like really like impacted as far as like beyond the content?
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Have so many. For you? I'm sitting here, heart is warm just listening to y'all talk about
Will Anthony:your teachers.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Probably because that's the work that I do. I think that's the work that saved me too, man. When I hear y'all talk about those experiences, y'all's body language, you smile, your energy is high. You're reflecting on the way they made you feel, you know? And I think a lot of things, I think it's a skill, but I think it is the intention of another human to make you feel seen, to ask you about your parents because parents are in most cases valuable to us.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:So that person is checking on you and it was valuable to you. I had a bunch of me and my principal, Doctor. Jackie Greenwood, was a surrogate mother who hugged kids and kissed them on the face.
Jordan Bassett:And this is when you were a student. Cause you had an education career. We'll get to that in a second.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:She's my high school principal. Mom worked a lot. So she was my surrogate mother at school and, you know, of course educators value your academic development, but she always saw us as human beings first. You know, I'm thinking and reflecting as I'm listening to y'all speak, I can't remember maybe one or two lessons I learned in high school, but I can almost remember how each one of my teachers made me feel. Yeah.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:And, you know, it takes Maya Angelou to say it. She says, people don't typically remember what you said or what you did, but they can almost remember how they made you feel. And so Doctor. Greenwood comes to mind. Howard Stevenson was a surrogate father who replaced my dad.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:And so he was safe for me. He was a person who could see when I wasn't having a good day, checked on me. He held me accountable too. So those experiences I think transcend education. I think we made education about reading and math, which it should be.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:That's how we advance in our careers. But becoming a well rounded human, has to be, I think, at the forefront of developing well rounded young people who become great parents and, spouses and contribute to the society.
Jordan Bassett:Yeah. I think that's really important. Before we get into our conversation about emotional intelligence, you you've been an educator?
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Twenty five years.
Jordan Bassett:Twenty five years. What'd you teach? Wow.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I was a special education teacher. Yeah? Yeah, man.
Jordan Bassett:At what level?
Dr. Brian Dinkins:All levels. So elementary, middle and high school.
Jordan Bassett:Them all. Well, now you're doing
Dr. Brian Dinkins:A lot. I'm the director of educational leadership at Butler University. That's my other full time job. So I have about 32 teacher leaders who spend two years with me getting a master's degree in educational leadership and they become school principals. So I've got more than a handful of students who are now leading schools.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I get to check on them. I've been teaching them how to wash the feet of the teachers who they serve.
Jordan Bassett:It's good leadership principles. It's the
Dr. Brian Dinkins:coolest thing. Yeah. It's exciting.
Jordan Bassett:Yeah. You've done a lot of things.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:You know, man, I have.
Will Anthony:You should be proud of that.
Jordan Bassett:You are proud of that.
Will Anthony:I know
Jordan Bassett:you are.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Well, I am a man of faith as you know, so I give all honor to the God that I love and who has thought enough of me to give me some experiences. And my goal now, man, is create spaces where leaders provide those same opportunities for young people to develop. Mhmm. You know, I just do math and and language arts, how can you learn that you are a national violinist? You know what I'm saying?
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Yeah. Or a, artist that your work should go into a national museum. So we gotta think about the experience more holistically, not just math, language arts, which is how we measure whether a school is doing a good job or not.
Jordan Bassett:Math and language arts, they're still important.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:They are.
Jordan Bassett:But it's broadening. It's just making sure that we're covering everything and not getting too narrow on it. It should. It should. Sure.
Jordan Bassett:I like
Dr. Brian Dinkins:that. It should.
Jordan Bassett:So getting into emotional intelligence. Maybe people have heard this word, maybe they haven't heard it, maybe they've heard one definition or a different definition. What is your definition of emotional intelligence?
Dr. Brian Dinkins:That's a great question. I'll simplify it. Emotional intelligence is a human's ability to accurately recognize their emotions, manage them and use them proactively to build and maintain healthy interactions and relationships with the world. Right? And when I say world, I think we often attribute emotional intelligence with just interactions with other humans, but it transcends that, right?
Dr. Brian Dinkins:When you see a football game and your team is losing, getting spanked and that emotion rises, it's not a human, it's an experience,
Jordan Bassett:right? So,
Dr. Brian Dinkins:you know, we have to be in tune with all the things in our life that bring wonderful, joyful emotions, the things that elevate our triggers, negative emotions, so that we can use that information responsibly and proactively for our own emotional well-being and for the well-being of those who are in our community.
Jordan Bassett:And how does that impact, how do you see that impact the importance of emotional intelligence, within the classroom, within learning?
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Yeah, that's a great question. So again, back to you all sharing the love of your teacher, that makes my heart so happy, especially as a former principal too, because I had teachers who created unhealthy conditions for children, not because they were bad people, but because they didn't manage their emotions well.
Will Anthony:Okay.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:So just like those teachers made us feel seen and heard and spent attention to the things that were important to us in the moment, There are teachers who are beautiful humans, but in that moment, whether it's conflict or anxiety or stress or frustration, show up in ways because they don't have emotional intelligence. They don't know what their triggers are. They don't know that they're having experience outside of themselves that has nothing to do with what's going on in the classroom, but maybe a childhood event. Because they don't know that they create unhealthy conditions in the classroom that sometimes keep learning from happening at authentic and impactful ways. And so the same thing with children, we bring them into our spaces expecting that they have the skills to manage what they just left in their home or the bus stop or the cafeteria.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:They bring it right into our classroom and because we've not taught them how to identify. I'm angry, not at the teacher, I'm angry because the boy talked about my shoes before I came to the classroom, but we project that emotion because we didn't manage it well. We identify where it came from. And it just it creates a lot of barriers.
Jordan Bassett:And I can see that compounding. If I'm assuming I'm coming in and I'm frustrated, I don't know, maybe from from my age bracket, I just got swindled out of a Pokemon card deal, trade deal. And I didn't get what I really wanted. And I'm mad about that situation. That's right.
Jordan Bassett:And I come into the classroom, and the teacher's perceiving my anger towards them, and they don't manage that well. So then they're angry back at me. Or even maybe the teacher doesn't have they're not frustrated at me. There's something in their life that's going on. Their kid just told them off.
Jordan Bassett:Like their biological kid, you know, their son or daughter just told them off. Now we're hitting both together.
Will Anthony:That's right.
Jordan Bassett:And I don't have you experienced this? Like, I feel like when two people are angry about separate things, it's not additive. It's multiplied. Do you do you feel that?
Dr. Brian Dinkins:You're teaching a master class for emotional intelligence. I mean, that's exactly it. It does compound too, right? Your irritations and emotional posture coupled with mine together, they have nothing to do with each other. But because we're both not leaning into how we are right now, what calls us to be here and how can we make sure that we're not punishing each other.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:But every part of our day has emotion attached to it, right? That's our body's communication, our nervous systems way of communicating to us safety, joy, the things that we should engage in, the things that we should stay away from. You see big dog, you get fearful, you run. Emotion is supposed to protect you. And we often think about emotional intelligence as good or bad.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:It's not, it's information. How do we use the information to protect us, to help us to engage in healthy activities, relationships, but we have to pay attention to it. Most of us don't, we just respond to it. And that can be particularly when you have children who have developed negative responses to these emotions can be very destructive and disruptive in the school environment. Mic drop.
Jordan Bassett:There it is.
Will Anthony:Yeah. Yeah. Honestly. Yeah.
Jordan Bassett:There it is. There in we're kind of researching emotional intelligence. Yeah. There's four my understanding, I'm gonna say what I know. Yeah, yeah.
Jordan Bassett:I'd like you to help me learn a little bit more.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Masterclass.
Jordan Bassett:Yeah, here we go. Is there's kind of four domains
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Yeah.
Jordan Bassett:Of emotional intelligence. Self awareness
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Yeah.
Jordan Bassett:Self regulation, social awareness, and
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Relationship management.
Jordan Bassett:There it is. Relationship Yeah.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I like you say self regulation. I use the language self management same.
Jordan Bassett:Okay.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Right? So how do I manage the emotion when it comes? You call them domains. I also call them competencies because they're all skills, right? They're all skills.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:They're not just domains. It requires practice for us to truly enhance and develop the skill. That's why I love, you know, Daniel Goldberg, Tim Bradbury, Doctor. Mayer, who is one of the original researchers that took social science and actually identified what emotional intelligence was. These humans, brilliant men and women in the field have helped us to truly understand it in a skill based way, which I think is beautiful because in the educational landscape, we assume people already come with the skills and so we don't explicitly with intention help build the skill.
Jordan Bassett:And
Dr. Brian Dinkins:we attribute behavior to a decision and not an emotional response. See, if I'm seeing a particular behavior consistently that is disruptive or destructive, I can help build the skill to help reduce the behavior cause I've helped them to identify the emotion and manage it in productive ways. But you've got to develop a sense of awareness before you can do that. I didn't even know what emotional intelligence was until I was in my thirties and my doctorate work, right? I had already been a principal educator sixteen years.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I've taken emotional intelligence appraisal, which is an assessment that allows you to identify your level of emotional intelligence. Most humans didn't even know what that I didn't even know what it was, right? They didn't talk about it in my undergrad, any of my master's classes, I'm working on my fifth degree and I'm being introduced to emotional intelligence, man, where you been the last thirty years? And so that awareness for me was like, man, your EQ was not very good. Now what?
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Practice. Six months practice, my life totally changed.
Jordan Bassett:Yeah. Doing this job with podcasts and the Innovator School Summit and Accutrainer thing, getting to know you a little bit and just hearing the things that you say about emotional intelligence totally changed the way that I interacted with my kids. I've done work with students through my church and things.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:And
Jordan Bassett:I think sometimes I just made that assumption myself of like, you're in high school, you should understand emotions.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:You should know it.
Jordan Bassett:But that's not true. That's not always
Will Anthony:true. Some
Jordan Bassett:yes, some no. But it yeah, that that skill. It's skills that need to be taught and putting it into practice or training. They need to to work to work that, to have some resistance and and some coaching.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Yeah. Jordan, that's so good, man. You make my heart so happy brother. You know, I'm listening to you dink, know what I'm saying?
Will Anthony:I learned some things,
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I need
Jordan Bassett:to watch my kids. Hey, I'm not puffing
Dr. Brian Dinkins:you up that much.
Jordan Bassett:No. Let's knock you down
Will Anthony:a bit.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Can't even take credit bro.
Will Anthony:You know
Dr. Brian Dinkins:the funny part is it is we, I can't take credit. No, anybody that comes on the podcast really can't take credit because it's all information in the universe. We just go and grab it. I'm still not where I should be in my advancement and understanding of it. So I'm constantly reading it.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I'm in my eighth year of the work. I started my doctorate work in 2010. So over twelve, thirteen years in the research, but I'm still every day trying to develop the skills that help me to engage with other humans in better ways. It doesn't stop. But what we've got to elevate now is an understanding globally so people can use that awareness to then pay attention to themselves and others.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:And that way we become a more healthy society, man, because emotions matter.
Jordan Bassett:And one of those starting points is with the educators, with teachers. I always get a little concerned talking about this stuff. There's so much that educators are already doing.
Will Anthony:Yeah. Yeah.
Jordan Bassett:And and I hate to kind of put another Yeah. You know, brick on the pile or I don't know what analogy I wanna use there. Analogy. Another thing in the suitcase. I don't know.
Jordan Bassett:Just, you know, one more thing for them to carry. Yeah. But it in in your research and and things that I've heard you talk about and say is like, it feeds into the instruction. Yeah. It's not taking away.
Jordan Bassett:Understanding an emotional intelligence, it helps with instruction. Yeah. It's not another thing on top of it. But, like what have you experienced kind of with that of like fitting it into the academic side
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I'm just saying that. I think you're spot on. The way I approach the work is this way. And I try to model it through my training and coaching. I was a kid who had a very traumatic childhood, an ACE score of an eight, developed some dysfunctional behaviors as a result.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I became an educator, still the kid, still the stuff, not recognizing when it shows up, when a kid triggers me, when I'm dysregulated from home stuff that I bring to school. And then I get introduced to this EQ and I'm going, okay. It didn't feel like another thing and actually felt like it was taking a brick off because it benefited me first. It benefited me first in my own emotional and psychological safety and well-being. And then I was able to hand it over to students and teachers, for them to benefit from.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:And so, but it's all about perspective. When I do the training, I show my educators or my central office staff or superintendent, show them this mask of this beautiful human who is getting ready to prepare us for a flight. And she says, or he says, in the event that the cabin loses pressure, put your mask on first, right? This mindset that before I give it away, let me contribute to my own well-being first. Me fill my cup first.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Let me manage my emotions first and then that will make it much easier to model and provide the strategies and skill development for students and then they can benefit from it. And so there's an intersection.
Jordan Bassett:Yeah. Because and if they're, if the students are in a heightened state of emotion, that learning's not necessarily being effective. You can have the most perfect lesson plan.
Will Anthony:That's right.
Jordan Bassett:All the good analogies and the illustrations, and you stayed up all night. But like we were saying earlier, if that kid comes in something from home or outside, it could be the biggest thing, it could be the smallest thing. It's just put them out of a state of being able to consume and store knowledge. It's just all lost.
Will Anthony:I wish I had you guys. Mic drop. What's this
Dr. Brian Dinkins:dude right here, man? I'll take you on the road
Jordan Bassett:with me, brother. Listen.
Will Anthony:Honestly, I I'm pretty I would say and and I don't mean this any negative weight to my own, but I I feel like I'm I'm pretty jealous of your kids, honestly, in the way that you guys are talking about this. Because I I I consider myself someone with pretty high emotional intelligence, but I had to learn it from getting hurt so many times. And I I had to learn it from seeing people not have control you know, not high emotional management. And I learned from those experiences, and I was able to take those on, but that was a lot of work. There's a lot that you were talking about right now that I'm just, man, I wish I had that.
Will Anthony:I wish I had. Because I don't have my own kids
Jordan Bassett:Yeah.
Will Anthony:But I wish I had that growing up.
Jordan Bassett:And you kinda bring up a point too. I mean, I'm not trying to harp on any parents or teachers or anything, but sometimes kids don't have that And help at so as educators, again, I hate putting another thing in the suitcase. But it's important work help. Cause it can help all of us. But,
Will Anthony:you know, maybe those parents didn't learn it from their own. Yeah. You know, it's just years and years of, I mean, honestly not being educated in EQ, you know, it's just years of that passed on. I mean, and I feel like, you know, I don't want to put words in your mouth, Brian, you know, but I feel like, especially for African Americans, like there's a lot of extra trauma that goes into these kinds of things. And I feel like we're sometimes frowned upon to show that emotion, you know?
Will Anthony:So then I can't even work on it because I can't even show it. And if I can't even show it, then all I do is think about it and hold it in, you know? So there's just there's so many layers of that snowball that you have to kind of I mean, it's not even a snowball, it's like a cement ball because you
Jordan Bassett:chiseled through. Stop me bro.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:No, first I celebrate you man for your vulnerability, man transparency. I, it is, it's so many layers to it. Right? I think as men, us all three of us being men, the world teaches us that we can't cry. We have to be hard, that we are protectors.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:We can't be vulnerable. Right? And I'm a firm believer. I operate with the idea that we're all beautiful humans. The world teaches us things that sometimes are not great lessons to learn.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I believe parents do the best that they can with what they have. And I think educators is the same way. I think the institution of education is the same way. Until we open up the door for innovation, right now you have school districts who have outlawed AI, right? The universities don't use AI.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Why you handcuff us in that way when the world is evolving so fast in the use of AI? And so the same as emotions is typical that leadership that understands it and embraces it creates conditions for it in their schools. Those who don't, they keep it at the door. Jordan, you said earlier, man, I'll use my words, I've never seen a dysregulated adult regulate a dysregulated child, right? So if we don't help the adults in our school communities regulate their own emotions, they will constantly be dysregulated by children who were dysregulated.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Nobody wins, no learning happens. And the children of today men are dealing with, I think I'm just a little bit older than y'all.
Jordan Bassett:A lot of him,
Dr. Brian Dinkins:maybe a little bit. I didn't wake up with an iPad. I didn't have 45 channels to choose from. The stimulation that they deal with, the music, the internet, all that brain stimulation that causes emotion ups and downs all throughout the day without learning to regulate is a ticking time bomb when I've not learned how to identify that and regulate it. And they're coming into classrooms every day, got one teacher, 30 kids, that's 30 humans with emotions.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:And I've got to manage all of those emotions at the same time.
Jordan Bassett:And they're almost never the same emotions.
Will Anthony:It's the
Jordan Bassett:same moment. Almost never. Last day of school, I think it's probably all the same. But that's about it. Unbelievable.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:And so we've gotta make it normal, man. We we gotta make it normal. Yeah.
Jordan Bassett:Yes. So we've we've explored a lot of emotional intelligence in this big picture thing.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Yeah.
Jordan Bassett:We're gonna take a quick break. Let's do it. And when we come back, we're gonna bring it down into you know, we've talked a lot about all of this different stuff. But what is what what is an educator? What does the adult in the room actually do to help, their emotional intelligence and help the emotional intelligence of, their students?
Jordan Bassett:So hang out, and we'll see you guys after the break. Everybody, welcome back to the Innovative Schools podcast. Will and I are sitting down with Brian Dinkins talking emotional intelligence among other things. We got a good number of personal stories in that first half there. But we're gonna we're gonna reel it in just a smidge.
Jordan Bassett:Mhmm. We're gonna come back into classroom and into school. And we talked a little bit about, like, why it's important, the emotional intelligence of how sometimes if that kid's coming in, they're dysregulated and they're dealing with something. Not that teachers need to be a counselor necessarily, but at least aware of what's going on, how that can impact learning. So I kind of want look at a couple different, not specific situations, but I guess roles in the school.
Jordan Bassett:Starting with between, let's say, a teacher and the students. Okay. Right? What are some kind of like practical day to day things that the teacher can do, I guess, for themselves to increase their emotional intelligence in that situation?
Dr. Brian Dinkins:That's a great question. So a typical approach, that my team and I take when we are helping a school develop their level of emotional intelligence is giving them a set of strategies that help build the skill around those four competencies. Self awareness, self management, social awareness, relationship management. Relationships are the bread and butter of the educational experience, right? There's so many brilliant educators over the years that have said, kids don't care what you know until they know that you care.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:It's a skill, right? It's a skill that has to be developed. For a teacher who is investing in developing their skills should always start with self awareness. Two strategies in that, the first being self check. So I'm checking in with myself emotionally before every school day, before every class, because it is likely that my emotional posture is going to impact the students that I teach in a particular way.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:If I'm irritated by a hate mail I got from an administrator and I don't move through that negative emotion, it's likely it will show up in my classroom with my interactions with students. So developing a high sense of self awareness using the strategy of a self check is the first
Jordan Bassett:So self check means like, is that just before the next group of kids come in? Is your question just how am I feeling? Why do I feel that way kind of thing?
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Absolutely. So I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna give you another strategy that couples with it. So, emotional vocabulary. So, you ask most humans, how are you doing today? Well, they say,
Will Anthony:Fine.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Fine, good. As a society, we've normalized that type of language, Good and fine. Two reasons. One, I don't believe you really care how I feel. Good sends you away, right?
Dr. Brian Dinkins:And two, I say good because maybe I really don't want you to know how I feel or I don't know myself. Good is a default response. When I can develop my emotional vocabulary, there are over a 100 emotions. I'm gonna say that again, over a 100 emotions that you, me, we can feel within a day. When I develop my emotional vocabulary and my behavior responses to those emotions and I do a self check, it's easier to say I'm feeling anxiety right now.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I've worked on this lesson, don't know how it's going to land. I'm experiencing anxiety. Anxiety can impact the way I show up. Do I want to stay here or do I want to change the channel and move to another emotional posture that will better benefit me? So awareness, emotional vocabulary, and a self check.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:That is one of the greatest strategies that we can start with, with developing our emotional intelligence. There are resources, there's an app called Mood Meter that you can purchase on Android or Apple for a dollar and it will buzz you throughout the day and ask you, how are you feeling emotionally in the moment? It will give you this, continuum of emotions and let you choose.
Jordan Bassett:So, he's building the vocabulary as well as prompting for that check.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:All of it, self awareness and emotional vocabulary. And it's even color coordinated, warm to cold, warm, green, I'm feeling happy, joyful, all the way to cold, angry or red, angry, frustrated. The beautiful second question I'll ask you is, do you wanna stay here? That's a powerful question because I think we believe we're prisoners to our emotions and we're not. We have the power to change our emotional mood with the right practice.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Changing the channel was a great strategy. I keep my daughters with me everywhere I go. So, in a triggered moment, I give myself permission to think about a joyful experience that helps me move from my irritation to focusing on something that elevates my emotional mood. But it requires practice, right?
Will Anthony:Yeah.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Students, let's use them. So the teacher has done a self check. They've identified where they are emotionally. Now students are coming into the classroom, creating a daily opportunity for students to self check.
Jordan Bassett:To do that same thing.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Does two things. It helps me develop my social awareness, which is my ability to accurately perceive the emotions of those I'm interacting with. Right? If you've ever engaged somebody and you could see their countenance is either happy, joyful, frustrated, anger, that is a skill. If I know where they are, then that helps me to position myself of how I should engage.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:With a girlfriend or a spouse, see anger, frustration, I'm not having a conversation about something serious right now. How can I support you? But there are some humans who miss that because they don't study the emotions of others and they miss having conversations at the wrong time. Teachers who are aware of themselves and then they spend time studying the emotions of their students find often a very delicate balance between where I am, where my students are, and how I should create conditions for the class.
Jordan Bassett:I heard someone recently talking about how when they greet their students at the door, like they've taught their students, they're like, when you walk in, you can do it real close to your chest and just do a thumbs up
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Love it.
Jordan Bassett:Or do a thumbs down or just a medium and like just a flat hand or some kind of signal Yeah. To to let the teacher know without broadcasting to everybody, hey, right now I'm not doing okay. Yeah. And that teacher then knows, okay, I kinda know where to set my expectations for that student at this at this moment. But I can also circle back around and kinda see what's going on.
Jordan Bassett:Again, not that teachers need to be the counselors, but that they at least kind of know that starting point of that check-in. I just heard that as a thing.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Mic drop.
Jordan Bassett:Man, you three times already.
Will Anthony:Three months? You're killing it, bro. You're killing it.
Jordan Bassett:I'll say, the other thing I started thinking about when you're talking about when you said hundreds of emotions.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Oh, yeah.
Jordan Bassett:My brain, I'm very visual in my in my head. And, I went from I pictured an eight count crayon box Yeah. And then the, like, 100 and something. Yeah. I bet you you could take I I was thinking about this.
Jordan Bassett:I was thinking I could probably pick up each color in that 124 pack or whatever it is now. I don't know how many is. And assign some emotion to each one of those those crayons myself. And that just helped me think about how many different emotions really are are felt or could be experienced amongst people.
Will Anthony:See, I'm visual in a different way, and I felt like when you were saying the crayons, I was thinking about, like, having maybe having a student, you know, identify what they're feeling with crayons. And if they're feeling multiple, you can see them coloring in and kind of being able to identify their mood with that color or the mix of colors of different things. I don't know. Just that's where my brain went.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:You both are spot on, man. Well, in my training, use a color, I use a emotional chart, right? And it's so crazy because when teachers see they're like, I need that. Like oftentimes I see like this moment because colors, we connect to colors, colors, you know, raise mood. But on both sides, the teacher and the student, there is self education happening constantly.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I love that Jordan, thumbs up.
Jordan Bassett:Thumbs up.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Middle, thumbs down, straight hand. What you're asking the student to do is be self reflective, to check-in. I hadn't even thought about where I was until I got to you. I'm doing amazing. I'm not.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:That for them elevates their awareness. And if we use that opportunity responsibly, our language throughout the lesson will be, take care of yourselves the best that you need to. I'm gonna teach. Let me know how I can support you. Now we go back to y'all's earlier sharing of your teachers.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:That's a teacher that is not only prioritizing academic learning, but prioritizing your emotional needs in the moment. And I need my emotional needs met first before my academic needs met. You said a little earlier, you can't even get to my academic needs till you address my human need first. Need for connection, need for safety. All of that happens to the emotional experience.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:If I don't feel psychologically safe with you, you're not getting anything from me today. If I don't have trust, all that does is create fear, anxiety, separation, discontentment, all the things. And so we can't get to levels of learning that's necessary when we haven't addressed the barriers that keep us from connecting and being safe, which is in motion. I need to feel protected.
Jordan Bassett:So moving in, we talked a little bit about teacher. We bled a little bit, little scope creep into the students, which is okay. But what other things, if we look specifically at students, what a teacher can do to help students? Is there any other kind of practical things that they can do to help a student increase their emotional intelligence?
Dr. Brian Dinkins:They can. You know, it's so interesting because you're asking me things that teachers can do for students, but in reality it's the teacher doing the things for themselves that actually do the things for the students, right? For example, our bodies or machines need to be fueled. If you don't eat, your body literally draws fuel from fat stores, carb reserves. And so what that does is it limits our ability to regulate our emotions in effective ways.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:You ever been hungry before, that's a real thing, irritated. So, in managing my own physical body and emotional regulation, I need to get up and eat. Need to go to bed at night. You sleep five or fewer hours in a day, five days in a row, you have a cognitive impairment equivalent of a blood alcohol level of 0.01. So you go into work drunk and hungry and you're a ticking time bomb.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:So I can't help students if I'm having to help myself. So these are, it's nothing, prepare your body for the work that it's gonna do for other young people, which allows you to create the conditions for success because I've done my part, because I'm the catalyst. A lot of teachers don't realize they're the ticking time, they're the triggers for a lot of students and that's because they didn't do the fundamental things they needed first and they're punishing kids for it. So managing your emotions, you're preparing for the day, social awareness. This is great, but also studying body language.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:If you see Brian's posture is not what it's typically been, then you ought to be prepared to give a little grace. You ought to give him some patience, check-in. Don't be harping about homework if you can see that the body language is not what it's been. That requires practice. Social awareness is a skill that helps set students up for success.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:When I was fighting at home, my dad in the mornings, coming to school tired and exhausted, don't talk to me about math and reading. And Ms. Jones comes to mind who would say, baby, give me a hug, go get you a granola bar and then take you a ten minute nap and then you can join us, for circle time. She saw I wasn't prepared. She gave me what I needed before trying to get me learning and that said a couple of things, you care about me more than teaching.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Two, you let me take a nap so that I could get to sleep, the small amount of rest to prepare for the day and then fuel for the day, right? So she prioritized it, but she could only know that if she studied me.
Will Anthony:If she knew you. That's right.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:She would miss it. It said to her, it's a priority for me to know my students so I can better serve them. And then the last is relationship management, man. So intent, be intentional about positive relationships. I hear teachers and leaders all the time say, I don't have to be their friend.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:No, you don't have to be their friend, but you do have to be in relationship with them.
Jordan Bassett:What
Dr. Brian Dinkins:are you doing consistently that maintains the health and quality of relationships? Schools do a lot of that at the beginning. What's your name? What do you like?
Jordan Bassett:Team building, right? Your favorite color? What's your favorite TV show? What's your favorite hobby? It lasts a week.
Jordan Bassett:It's gone.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Then we don't come back to it. Now it's all math. I'll say, and this is crazy, I had this in our session yesterday. Our value systems can be different. Teachers value academic excellence.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Students value relationship. It's a value for them. Academics don't provide any value to them in the moment from their perspective. I get straight A's, nothing happens. I get straight F's, nothing happens.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:So there's no immediate impact of academic learning for them. Long term, we know the great benefits of it, but immediate satisfactions with where kids live, they want it right now. They want to change the channel right now. They want a different song right now. It provides no value, but social acceptance
Jordan Bassett:of
Dr. Brian Dinkins:being seen, heard, valued by peers, that's value for them. So, we have to be prepared to give them value just like we want them to give us value in time. And so, teachers have to be intentional about how they build relationships and maintain them over time. I'm studying myself, I'm managing those emotional triggers. I'm studying the students of my classroom, and then I'm creating micro moments of relationship bucket filling all the time.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:If I fill your emotional bucket when I'm asking you for something, I can take a withdrawal because I
Will Anthony:have
Dr. Brian Dinkins:deposited positive energy, language, interactions. All those work together for a healthy relationship that teachers start with themselves.
Jordan Bassett:Mhmm.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:It's a great question, man.
Jordan Bassett:We've talked about teacher. We've talked about student. Yeah. Let's go to the administration. Administration to teacher.
Jordan Bassett:Because you have that teacher that's helping those 30 whatever kids.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Yeah, man.
Jordan Bassett:But you also have a a principal, assistant principal, or vice principal, however you say it in your school
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Yeah.
Jordan Bassett:Who has their whole staff, And they all come to school. Like we said, you coming in, something else has happened, you're dysregulated. Let's talk a bit about that dynamic of emotional intelligence. What's things that principals can do or that administration? And I'm sure you're gonna start by saying they have to take care of themselves.
Jordan Bassett:They have to learn, which is which is important. But I don't wanna end this podcast without talking about that relationship too.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I got a funny story for you, man. So I when I I left the principalship, I was a director of culture and climate and SCL, social emotional learning for the entire district, largest district in Indianapolis. Our team would help schools implement an SEL curriculum in schools. And we started to observe these classrooms. These teachers were teaching amazing lessons.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:We were coming back and observing and some of the teachers were losing their minds, screaming on kids. One time we heard a kid say, didn't you teach us not to do that this morning?
Will Anthony:Yep. Crazy.
Jordan Bassett:The number of times I told my daughter, don't yell at your brother, shoot, I'm doing it to you.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:And we checked in, we said, we missed the step guys. And they were like, we did. We missed the teachers. We were giving curriculum for students, but we had not provided any learning for teachers. Teachers can't model the skills that they're not practicing.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:You can teach them, but if you're not practicing them, we can't expect you to model for students. And as soon as you lose your mind, you give students permission to do the same, right? Yeah. You can't say don't do and then do. So, we started working with teachers, we saw great growth improvement.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Then we identified we missed another person and that's the principles, right? There is often a philosophy that we are in leadership and people expect us to know everything and do everything. But principles are the most isolated humans in schools and oftentimes don't have the support that they need, the emotional support they need, the continued mentorship and training. I have about 30 principals I mentor across the country and I check-in with them and I say, how are you doing emotionally? How are you taking care of yourself physically?
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Who is your accountability partner on your campus? And how are you taking care of the people who you're responsible for taking care of? And those moments, men, are sometimes the most vulnerable and healthy moments because they can share their hearts with me without any judgment or worry about being penalized for sharing where their gaps are, because there's no psychological safety with their leaders. But we saw these principals losing their minds in leadership team meetings, losing their minds in faculty meetings. So they need emotional development as much as everybody else, right?
Jordan Bassett:But
Dr. Brian Dinkins:they have to see that first because principals can have egos.
Jordan Bassett:Can't we
Dr. Brian Dinkins:all? And we can, but if they don't see themselves as one of the primary stakeholders that need it first, because they, I used to say they're at the top, but they're not, they're actually should be the foundation holding everybody else up. And so if you're the foundation, then you have to be at the front of personal development because you are not only getting hit by students, but teachers, support staff, social workers, counselors, parents, assistant superintendents, board members, that's coming from every you getting hit more than anybody else. So it is likely you'll be triggered more than any other stakeholder in the building. And what we have found is when you have principals who are unemotionally healthy, they often create unhealthy conditions for everybody.
Will Anthony:Yeah. I feel like I've heard that before where if, if the principal sneezes, the whole school gets sick,
Dr. Brian Dinkins:you know, kind of thing.
Will Anthony:I like I've I've heard that somewhere. It might have been on the podcast, honestly. It's true. I heard someone said that and I was because I know, I think I've heard before someone say, if the teacher sneezes, the classroom gets sick. But even more than that, if the principal sneezes, whole school.
Will Anthony:So yeah. Crazy. That funnel, you know?
Dr. Brian Dinkins:That's why they're the first ones to go typically when the when the school's not going well, you know, the quarterback's not throwing touchdowns, fired a coach. Yep.
Jordan Bassett:I wanna wanna do two things before we close this The thing first is one of the things that I'm hearing through this whole conversation and I wanna kind of like challenge is we can talk about principals, we can talk about kids. And yes, principals being the foundation. But I want to challenge listeners, and even us, to start with ourselves. I think that was kind of that's a thread sewn through the whole conversation we've had today is that no one else can do the work for you, for your emotional intelligence, that we all need to pick up our own weight and do the training and build that skill. But along with that, which may sound a little contradictory to what I just said, is that it's also a whole school thing.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:It is.
Jordan Bassett:Like, it's not just the teachers to the students. It's not just the administrators to the the teachers, but it's any of the staff to staff, teacher to teacher, to cafeteria workers, custodians
Will Anthony:Students to students.
Jordan Bassett:Students to to student coaches, school bus drivers. Like, if you can get the entire system to have this awareness, if they're in mister Bassett's class and I recognize this thing about Will, like, he's not doing good, I can send a note to you because I know he's in miss mister Dinkins' class next.
Will Anthony:Yeah. Yeah.
Jordan Bassett:Yeah. And say, hey, I noticed Will's just off today. Just giving you a heads up or this is the thing that I noticed. We can share that information amongst ourselves and then it takes even less time. We still get our academic time.
Jordan Bassett:Yeah. But we're all helping in growing ourselves. A coach or a gym teacher can say the same thing. Hey, I noticed, you know, Will was not key he loves basketball, but he's not he's not keyed in. Yeah.
Jordan Bassett:He missed three three pointers. I don't understand what happened there. You know? Whatever. Just normal.
Jordan Bassett:That's normal. I'm not a
Will Anthony:I typically play in a pain anyway. Yeah. That's that's normal.
Jordan Bassett:But the point is is that, like, yes, I don't think we should expect other people to to build the skill if we're not building the skill.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Yeah.
Jordan Bassett:But if we can all build the skill together at the same time, is then we're taking even less time away from academics, but we're still helping all of the students get into the position to learn.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:That's so good. Y'all y'all heavy. Y'all deep in. Y'all some deep brothers. I use this example all the time.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Somebody gets in trouble with it. But my daughters love Chick fil A and we go Chick fil A everywhere we go. My wife's love language is travel, we travel a lot, we look for Chick fil A. Every time we go, we're gonna hear my pleasure. Right?
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I live in an airport, so there's a Chicklay in the airport. I eat there a lot, man. This young lady came up to the stand, to the to the counter. She reminded me of my daughter, ordered my food, paid for it. She handed it to me.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I said, thank you. She said, you got it. I went.
Will Anthony:You got it.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Her coworker turned and looked at her. The patron on the other side turned and looked at me. And there was a manager in the back with a white jacket on. He turned around, he came up to the counter top, to the counter and he waved at me, then he tapped her on the shoulder and he said, come here for a minute. I'm being nosy, man.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I got my boot up, I'm watching.
Jordan Bassett:You eat your fries out of the bag.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Listen, they go to the back. I can't hear what they're saying but he's going.
Jordan Bassett:He's moving his hand for our audio listeners. He's
Dr. Brian Dinkins:moving my
Jordan Bassett:hands. He's
Dr. Brian Dinkins:reassuring her. Nice
Jordan Bassett:friendly He's smiling,
Dr. Brian Dinkins:she's going, oh my gosh, she's got this look of surprise on her face. And you can tell he's coaching her. She comes back to the counter, a customer comes up, goes through the same process. The person says, thank you. She says, my pleasure.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I think it's amazing because you can 2,800 franchises, you're gonna get some of the same language because there's a commitment to customer service in all those places. Schools have to do the same thing, right? There has to be a level of shared commitment amongst all stakeholders that we're going to do this work together and what will happen naturally, you said there's a, there's a some contradiction, there's not. There's actually, really close alignment. I'm going to take care of myself and then as a result, we're going to take care of each other.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:And what happens is when we get to those shared commitments, those five statements, I will regulate my emotions and identify why I feel the way that I feel and protect myself and others. I will make sure I operate with empathy and give people permission to feel even if I don't agree with their behavior. I mean, when the schools that we work with, they actually come to share commitments. When your behavior doesn't line up with those shared commitments, you stick out like a sore thumb. You got it.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:No, that's not the language we use. It's my pleasure.
Jordan Bassett:When
Dr. Brian Dinkins:schools can really get sound around what emotional well-being and intelligence looks like, and we commit to it, when somebody's not operating that way, they stick out. And then the manager, he didn't wait till the end of the day to intervene. He intervened immediately in a coaching posture that was not confrontational, that was not judgmental, it was reinforcing our commitments. And so schools have to get to that, right? And repetition, practice, practice, practice, practice.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:She probably was new. She probably had a moment. They make you go six weeks through training before they even put you in front of people, right? And so we gotta get in the habit of doing the same things in our schools. And what we will see is a decrease in adversarial interactions.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:We'll see, teacher satisfaction and mobility decrease. They stay, they stick. We see student outcomes improve because they are now regulated in a way that allows them to access information in healthy ways and perform well. All the things that are deeply aligned with the way we feel and the way we perform, Deeply connected.
Jordan Bassett:Yeah. Brian. This has been a long one, but it's been a great one.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I hope so, man. I've enjoyed every moment of it.
Jordan Bassett:We're definitely gonna have to have you back for sure. Yeah. And talk. But hey, what a way to kick off season three of Innovative Schools podcast. I thank you so much for being with us and just talking and chatting and exploring emotional intelligence, giving some tools and things to educators for them to increase their skill set and help their students increase their skill set.
Jordan Bassett:So thank you for being here. Thank you for for talking to us. I I definitely built my skill a little bit. And I know a lot of our our listeners and viewers did too. So we wanna thank you guys for joining us on this first episode of season three.
Jordan Bassett:I know you learned something. I say it every time. I know somebody learned something. And because of that, we we want to encourage you guys to share this episode, share the podcast with your coworkers, with your principals, with maybe even your students. I don't know.
Jordan Bassett:Yeah. Maybe. But share this. We do this podcast. We say it all the time because we want to help educators.
Jordan Bassett:We're not doing it to build our own fame or anything like that, but it's purely just to help educators as much as we can. And we can't help more educators without shares, without follows, and things like that. So encourage you to do that. Outside of that, thanks for joining. We'll see you guys on the next one.
Jordan Bassett:This has nothing to do with what we're talking to you
Dr. Brian Dinkins:about. Nothing.
Jordan Bassett:We'll go through how we're gonna do everything in a minute. So editor, you're gonna have a lot of things to work through before
Dr. Brian Dinkins:we So excited.
Jordan Bassett:We we've tried to look up your college football records.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Yeah.
Jordan Bassett:And we noticed that in a Purdue versus Michigan game, there's one sack credited to you. And by our calculations, Tom Brady Tom Brady. Was the quarterback.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:On his back. Well, they actually split
Jordan Bassett:Did you On his did you sack Tom Brady?
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I guess like Tom Brady. I've got the the evidence to prove it, man.
Jordan Bassett:We tried to find the film, but we can't find
Dr. Brian Dinkins:Yeah.
Jordan Bassett:We can't find a recording in that game.
Dr. Brian Dinkins:I got it. I got it.
Jordan Bassett:It it actually plays it's on repeat on his TV at home. Yeah. It just
Dr. Brian Dinkins:It's on my walls.