On this episode of the Innovative Schools podcast, we sit down with Robert Jackson to talk about how to build cultural awareness in your school by using questions and intentionality. Come on. Let's learn together. Hey, everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Innovative Schools podcast.
Jordan:Jordan here.
Will:This is Will as well.
Jordan:We're glad you could join us today on this episode. There's a question we have. We want you all to think about this question too. We're gonna give some answers. And that question, if I get to my notes correctly, is what was a way a teacher made you feel seen or thought about?
Will:I immediately go back to, like, before high school. I think it was middle school. I was able to just kind of move around the classroom to a different seat if I needed. My teacher, I can't remember her last name, but she had made it very clear to us that we're here to learn and whatever that takes to get that done, that's what she wanted to help us do. So I could move closer to the board if I needed to.
Will:If I needed to get extra supplies, she had that on the side in a room, which I know isn't immediately available everywhere. But I just remember she made it abundantly clear that learning was going to get done and there was going to be no hindrance to that. So that really made me feel kind of heard in that moment.
Jordan:Oh, just like making sure that you were involved in Yeah. Different ways and things like that?
Will:Yeah, there was she was gonna make sure nothing was in the way of my of my learning there.
Jordan:That's interesting. Yeah. I think to ninth grade, my English teacher it was right when, like, MP3 players started becoming affordable for high schoolers. Yeah. And I had an MP3 player, and I would listen to music a lot.
Jordan:This is before, like, everyone had AirPods and stuff in their ears all the time.
Will:I think they know because you said m p three player.
Jordan:You're right. So but the that teacher took an interest in what I was listening to. Like, she thought it was cool, but then she's like, not just the technology, but she was like, what are you listening to? Why do you like that music? And would, like, tell me about the music that she likes to listen to.
Jordan:And I just felt like kinda like seen and understood. And it wasn't just like, hey. Here's all the English stuff that we have to learn.
Will:But it
Jordan:was like telling like, just making that connection. And I thought that that really helped me even learn better in the classroom. But we bring that question up because our guest today is Robert Jackson. Hey, Robert. How are you doing?
Robert Jackson:Doing great. How are you guys?
Jordan:We're good.
Will:Doing good, man.
Jordan:How awkward is it to just sit there while we banter for a minute?
Robert Jackson:Not at all. I'm I'm listening and learning. I mean, you know, I mean, I'm I'm actually I was actually in tune and listening, know? Oh, good. You know.
Jordan:Well we're gonna put you in
Robert Jackson:the connection is important.
Jordan:It is it is important. So we're gonna put you in the seat now. Okay. You growing up in in school, what was something that a teacher did that made you feel seen or heard?
Robert Jackson:Well, I I think back to miss Sangster right away. One of the things that, she did was she stood at that door and hugged everybody that came in that room and she called you by your name. She didn't say young man, she didn't say young woman, she said good morning Robert, give me a hug, you know, and then she called you by your name through the day. Also she would give me leadership roles in the classroom. I remember, this is second grade.
Robert Jackson:But I remember she took who I was and the skills I had and she told me that I was, she taught me how to hone them and then she spoke life into me for the future. She said, You're gonna speak for a living, that's what you're gonna do.
Jordan:Well, here you are.
Robert Jackson:That's what I do for a living. Thank you, Ms. Sangster. She's in heaven now, but thank you Ms. Sangster.
Jordan:Oh, that's
Will:lovely, honestly. That's really sweet.
Robert Jackson:But she's one of my favorite teachers of all times because she always spoke positive words into your spirit, you know? Yeah. And coming from the background I came from, I needed those affirmations and I needed those words to push me through.
Jordan:Yeah. Really poured into you.
Robert Jackson:What was that power?
Jordan:Before we get too deep, I wanted to know the answer to your question. I really like that that answer. But we hinted at that teacher telling you you're going to be a speaker. And I just said, here you are doing it now. So let's take a brief second to introduce you of what you do, who you are, that kind of thing.
Robert Jackson:Okay. Robert Jackson, of course, international speaker, author, workshop, presenter. I speak at corporate events, schools, do mostly schools. I've been in education roughly thirty years now.
Will:Yeah.
Robert Jackson:Been doing it for a couple years. Just a little bit. You weren't even around yet.
Will:You were. I was barely.
Jordan:I was kid. I
Robert Jackson:hear you talking about cell phones. A lot has changed. We didn't have cell phones when I was in school. Like we had boombox. P three
Jordan:and all that.
Robert Jackson:Yeah. We didn't have none of that. So we ain't had no boomboxes. Oh gosh. Get to the bus stop on time or you get left.
Robert Jackson:You know what I mean? What's you know? So yeah, I've been speaking for many years now, but I've been in this space as a speaker, as an author for, you know, over twenty years now.
Will:Yeah.
Jordan:And we're here we're recording here at the Innovative School Summit in San Antonio.
Robert Jackson:Sure.
Jordan:And you you're you have a main stage presentation tomorrow. Yeah. Kind of like plugging that Yeah,
Robert Jackson:busy day tomorrow. You do have a busy day.
Jordan:I'm glad that you could find some time for us today. Yeah. But we're going to so why we have you here is we want to talk about building cultural awareness. Cultural awareness. I feel like I stumbled over that a little bit.
Jordan:Cultural awareness with staff and students, which is something that you speak on and you talk about. But I think before we get into how we do that, I want to define a little bit of what that is, how you define cultural awareness, why that's kind of important.
Robert Jackson:Okay. Well, for me, cultural awareness is acceptance and respect for everybody. Everybody's unique but everybody's different. Different races, ethnicities, socioeconomic status. Yeah.
Robert Jackson:Sexual orientation. We gotta be able to accept and respect everybody And that's what culture is. It's it's everyone, not just certain groups. Mhmm. And culture is not color.
Robert Jackson:Mhmm. You know? Because a lot of people wanna say culture is color. You can have two people that look alike and don't have don't have the same experiences. You can have two people who don't look alike that have some of the same experiences.
Robert Jackson:Culture is culture, it's about acceptance and respect and you find out cultures by having conversations. Using names. I
Will:really like that phrase, culture is not color. I really like that.
Robert Jackson:Yeah, it's not. Yeah. You know, it's about, you know, acceptance and respect for one another and respecting our cultural differences. And when I say it's not colors because you can have two people who grew up the same way and they understand the same culture and they may not look alike, but a lot of people wanna make culture color and you can have two men that look alike, that don't mean they have the same experiences.
Jordan:Right.
Robert Jackson:They grew up totally different, they don't have any idea about each other, you know, and I think that's a mistake that's made.
Will:Yeah, like it's not like a cookie cutter
Robert Jackson:Right.
Will:Set thing of this is one culture and this is the other. Yeah. Exactly. I like that.
Jordan:Yeah. Do you find that as a pitfall that a lot of, you know, that teachers or people kind of fall into of associating those things together?
Robert Jackson:I think they do. I think especially educators who haven't been trained in culture and haven't had a lot of training in the workshops or whatnot, I think a lot of teachers do that, you know, and that's why we do what we do.
Jordan:Yeah. To kind of help them We try. Bring all of us along. Mean, we can always learn something new.
Robert Jackson:We can, you know, but I tell educators all the time that culture is not necessarily color and color is not necessarily culture. It can be at times, but not all the time. Sometimes you just have to stop stereotyping kids and get to know
Jordan:them for who they are. Absolutely.
Robert Jackson:Because a lot of stereotypes happen and that's where the stereotypes lead to the suspensions and the misunderstandings. And in order to understand somebody you just gotta ask some questions and have a conversation.
Jordan:It it reminds me a lot of one of my favorite t show TV shows is Ted Lasso.
Robert Jackson:Okay.
Jordan:Have you watched that?
Robert Jackson:I haven't.
Jordan:You should. You really should. It's a it's a great show. Ted Lasso? Ted Lasso.
Jordan:Okay. It's about a an American football coach who gets hired by a English football team, Premier League team. Is that Jason Oh,
Will:I don't know. It's one of
Jordan:the Jasons. Anyway, look it up. Listeners, you can look it up if you haven't
Robert Jackson:watched But
Jordan:in one of the scenes, he says how does he say? He he basically says, be curious, not judgmental.
Robert Jackson:That's right.
Jordan:Ask questions. Get to know the person. Get to see what's going on before you make a jump to conclusions about someone.
Robert Jackson:And that's what's wrong with this world. I mean, everybody's judging everybody, nobody's asking questions, people are assuming and assumptions can be wrong. Yes. Know, just because somebody is because somebody's coming from a two parent household don't mean that they got it all together. Yeah.
Robert Jackson:They can be worse off than a kid coming from a single parent home because that mother in that single parent home is teaching that young man or that young lady emotional intelligence.
Jordan:Yeah.
Robert Jackson:In that two parent home, they arguing, they fighting, they on drugs, they doing other things, that kid is raising himself. So it's the stereotypes.
Jordan:Well, if
Robert Jackson:I got two parents, then I'm off. I'm good. Not necessarily.
Jordan:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I can see, yeah, just Just don't assume. Just ask questions.
Jordan:Be curious, not judgmental, think, is what that kind of comes down to.
Robert Jackson:That's right.
Jordan:I think you have here so there's six core values, I guess, when it comes to the cultural awareness for you. Sure. I'm gonna go over them real quick. I guess it's love, trust, fairness, support, accountability, safety. Correct.
Jordan:Can you talk to us a little bit about those six
Robert Jackson:Yeah, mean, I think everything starts with love, know, in this educational space. We have kids coming from all different kinds of backgrounds and socioeconomic status, but if you walk in love, why does it matter? And are you saying that all kids matter? How do you walk in love? Well, you gotta be patient.
Robert Jackson:You gotta be kind to people. You can't be quick to anger. Because Yeah. A lot, you you're saying that you're walking in love, but you angry every day. That's not walking in love.
Robert Jackson:You know, love doesn't keep records of wrongs, love doesn't boast, you know. So when it comes to educating, activating and motivating our kids would be great. You know, I feel like educators need to walk in love because that's what we need to teach kids to do, right? So trust is not built overnight. Trust is built over time.
Robert Jackson:You know, if you marry somebody, doubt if you're gonna meet them one day and marry them tomorrow, somebody may do it, but I don't Maybe. That's not the norm, you know. Usually you wanna get to know the person maybe at least through the seasons and see who that person is. So trust is built over time. So educators have to understand that, you know, kids don't even trust their own parents.
Robert Jackson:Why are they gonna trust you? Mhmm. So love, trust, fairness. Fairness. Be fair with everybody.
Robert Jackson:You're have your favorites. It's okay to have your favorites.
Jordan:Just don't let them know.
Robert Jackson:Don't be Captain Obvious.
Jordan:You're my favorite. I mean, dang it.
Robert Jackson:You know, calling on the same kid all the time. My daughter came home crying last week and she said her teacher never calls on her. She said she raised her hand and she reached around her calls on the same young lady every time. It's obvious that that's one of her favorites. Kids shouldn't know that.
Robert Jackson:Yeah. My daughter's in the fifth grade. How does she know that? She shouldn't know that. So be fair and be consistent.
Robert Jackson:Love, trust, fairness, support. Support comes in many different ways. Everybody don't need the same support.
Jordan:That's true.
Robert Jackson:Even the same kids that come from the same house, same background, they need different supports.
Jordan:Anyone that has kids of their own understands that. They should. They should.
Will:You're right.
Jordan:I'm not gonna say I don't wanna make assumptions. Just talked about not making assumptions.
Robert Jackson:We're not gonna apologize. Though because
Jordan:I apologize.
Robert Jackson:Know, we'd be better off.
Jordan:But they should. They should.
Robert Jackson:But support comes in many different ways. Like I grew up with four sisters and we all needed something different. Yeah. You know? But we came from the same household.
Robert Jackson:You know? Love, trust, fairness, support, accountability. Be accountable for your actions. When you say you're going to do something, do it. If you make a mistake, apologize, but be accountable.
Robert Jackson:I would never ask a kid to do something that I wouldn't do myself. I don't ask my kids to do anything I won't do. You know. If I tell them to clean up, they gotta see daddy cleaning up sometimes. They gotta see me, do the same thing.
Robert Jackson:And then safety is not just being safe in the physical sense. We gotta do a better job protecting the psychological, spiritual and emotional well-being of our children. That's what safety is. Protecting those emotions and feelings and giving kids a safe space to be themselves. That's kinda, in a nutshell, what the Quick,
Jordan:that was. I mean, there's a lot in there. Yeah. Really dense. I mean, good.
Jordan:So when we're saying values here, these things that educators should they need to hold in their you know, in everything that they do.
Robert Jackson:Yeah.
Jordan:Right? Is what we're saying.
Robert Jackson:Yeah, exactly. It starts with your heart. You know? Do you care about what you do? Are you passionate about this work?
Robert Jackson:Do you have are you bringing the right kind of energy? Those things are important because if I don't feel like you're enthused to be here, why should I be enthused to be here? I'd have been in some boring classrooms, have been I'd seen some boring administrators, I've seen some boring speakers. Everybody's sleeping. I'm like, you got to bring some kind of energy and wake some folks up and then give them some good information that they can take back practical things that they can use.
Robert Jackson:Not just personal stuff about, hey, I went through this. No, what can I do when I get back to Florida? What can I do when I get back to California or Texas or wherever you are? I need some practical things I can do right now to connect with this new generation of kids because it's tough. And if you're not gonna connect with them through your energy, through your passion, through the right kind of attitude, and, you know, you're not gonna connect with anybody.
Robert Jackson:Yeah. Yeah.
Will:Six seven can only go so far, you know?
Robert Jackson:Oh, gosh.
Will:Someone had to say it. They didn't.
Robert Jackson:They didn't. Please don't say that again.
Will:That's 67
Robert Jackson:stuff. I hear that all the time.
Jordan:My daughter.
Robert Jackson:My daughter says it all the time. 67. Stop. I don't even know.
Jordan:Even I
Robert Jackson:know what it means.
Jordan:I'm not sure anyone does.
Robert Jackson:You just say it because everybody's
Will:saying it. Gotta connect with them. Gotta connect. That's right.
Robert Jackson:And I say it back to her. It is a connection. Is. Is a
Jordan:good point.
Robert Jackson:It is a good point.
Jordan:I have talked to some teachers and I'm not in a classroom, so it's a little different. I'm sure it gets annoying and it's bothersome, but I've heard all ends of the spectrum of six, seven, not in my classroom, if anyone says it, disciplinary action, all the way to leaning all the way in, and they work it into their lesson. You know, somebody's like, Hey, you know what? Have about six or eight minutes to, you know, like, Ah! You know?
Jordan:Like they're playing with, but it is I do I do think that, as annoying as it might be, it is a connection point.
Robert Jackson:It is. And not just that, just finding what that kid is interested in.
Jordan:Yeah.
Robert Jackson:You know, because everybody has different upbringings and different that's why I'm saying every culture should be represented in that classroom. Kids want to feel a sense of home or normalcy in while they're at school. We can't just recognize certain cultures and not recognize everybody.
Jordan:Yeah.
Robert Jackson:But how do you do that? You do that by getting to know each student and finding out who they are, asking them about their background, about their family dynamics. Know, I've learned a lot through culture myself through friends. Mean, me and Ernesto are really good friends.
Jordan:We had him on season two?
Robert Jackson:Yeah. Ernesto. Yeah, he's a great guy, but he was like, we were talking, you know, we've been in each other's homes and all that, but he was really talking about, you know man we bring a good grade home and we have a celebration. I'm like for real? I mean all out celebrations man like I mean like food, drinks, everything you know like wow.
Robert Jackson:I didn't grow up like that you know. My mom like, oh, good job. And then she went on back to work. Know, so we have to understand the different cultures because that's a better way to connect with that audience. And if I have a connection with you, you're more apt to listen to me and learn from me and, you know, just a whole entirely better atmosphere.
Jordan:Out of those six, kind of going back, we meandered for a second, which is fine. But going back to the six values, what do you find I'm gonna this is two questions in one. What of those six do you find the hardest for you to solidify in the way that you interact with people? And what Me personally? You personally, but then also what you've kinda seen as you've gone to schools and talked to different educators and stuff.
Robert Jackson:The one that's as tough as for me is trust. You know, I've been in I I speak nationally, internationally, and you have a a group of 3,000 people in that room. Everybody's not right.
Will:Yeah.
Robert Jackson:I spoke at the ESEA conference. It was over 3,000 educators and, you know, trust is hard because for me, you know, I have a responsibility. If I'm if I'm teaching and educating, activating, motivating kids would be great. I take that responsibility seriously because this somebody's life. Kids don't always remember what you taught them but they remember how you made them feel.
Robert Jackson:100%. And I remember this because was at the All Star game and I heard somebody saying, Coach Jackson, Mr. Jackson, you know, this is one of my former kids, you know, that I had years ago. Why is he yelling my name at the game? Because of how I made him feel.
Robert Jackson:And I think that trust factor is important. And for me when I'm out here training educators, I tell them that, I say it's cool to walk in love, but if I don't trust you, I'm not believing anything to come out of your mouth. And how's trust built? Well, your actions, your words, you know it's not always about what you say, I watch what you do.
Jordan:Yeah.
Robert Jackson:I watch your body language.
Jordan:I can say I love you all day long but my action is gonna tell you if I really do or not.
Robert Jackson:Give me example, trust. I go, you know a lot of times when I speak at conferences, I show up a day early and I just kind of wander around, kind of walk in the room where I'm speaking at and kind of, you know, get a feeling for the atmosphere and all that. And I remember, I'm not going say that the conference, it wasn't this one.
Jordan:Was about to say that means it's at Innovator School Summit.
Robert Jackson:We're good. Acotrade's a little bit different. You guys are really nice and you got people greeting folks. I was at this conference, I was walking in a room and a lady sent security to ask me to leave the room. And I'm the damn keynote speaker.
Robert Jackson:Oh, gosh. Oh. I'm the keynote. Yeah. She sent security.
Robert Jackson:So security came, and I started laughing. And he said, Sir, you're have to leave here. There's no trespassing. And I looked around and said, you talking to me? And he was like, yeah, you know, lady over there just called me and said that she had a trespasser in the room.
Robert Jackson:I said, sir, come here for a second. He walked with me and I pointed to the wall, said, do see on that wall? And it was me.
Jordan:Oh gosh.
Robert Jackson:And so this lady, she works for the company that brought me in, but she never came to me to ask me any questions. What did she do? She called security.
Will:She made that assumption.
Robert Jackson:She made an assumption. Right? And she called the security, security come over, and I'm the keynote speaker at this place. I mean, it's over a thousand people going be there the next morning. And I made a little joke about it, but
Will:still I had to, man. Yeah. Yeah.
Robert Jackson:She was very apologetic, I said instead of being apologetic, why don't you ask questions? Why don't you what why did you come up to me? Mhmm. But she couldn't answer. I said, you didn't come up to me because you were scared, because something happened to you in the past, right?
Robert Jackson:So trust is important. You bring me in to speak, and I can't even trust you that you got security going to kick me out and I'm the keynote speaker, you know? It's a true story. And so I think the trust factor is for kids is extremely important.
Jordan:Kids
Robert Jackson:don't buy from who they don't trust. They don't learn from who they don't trust. So we have to build that trust factor. Walking in love is great, and I think you have to do that, but trust is so important. How am I supposed to go get up and speak the next morning when she got security trying to kick me out and I'm the main speaker?
Robert Jackson:You know what mean?
Jordan:So how I mean, I have some ideas, but I would be interested in yours is what does a teacher do to build trust in those in in kids? You you keep talking about trust, and I just keep thinking I can't remember if you said this, but you can't, withdraw from a relationship you haven't invested into you.
Robert Jackson:That's right.
Jordan:I think that's not mine. Someone else said that. I just want to make make that clear. But, you know, we can sit here and we can talk about trust and how important it is. But what have you seen are the, the most impactful ways for an educator to build the trust between them and their students?
Robert Jackson:Consistent. I say consistent, honest, and just asking questions. Mhmm. Kids want to ask questions about, tell me about what you do last night? Or or did you read anything?
Robert Jackson:I mean, just taking the interest in if they're in sports. How'd you do in your game? Oh, you remember I had a game? Or just showing up. If a kid has a basketball game, just be in the stands.
Robert Jackson:Make sure they see you. Wave at Hey, how y'all doing? You know, and make sure they see them. You know, that's how you build trust. It's really simple.
Robert Jackson:I said consistency, asking the right kind of questions, you know, and coming with the right kind of energy. All of that builds trust.
Will:Yeah. We literally do almost anything, honestly, ask them about anything, you know.
Robert Jackson:Just think about my students, I had them in my hands, man. I used to do crazy stuff, right? I would come in and one day I came in, I had some shoulder pads on and a helmet and some shorts and had my socks pulled all the way up here. The kids are going nuts laughing and stuff, but you man, they I mean, other kids were trying to get into my classroom that wasn't supposed to be there. It's because of the air I would do crazy stuff like that.
Robert Jackson:Mhmm. But I also had to put my foot down, no, you're not coming in here late. Yeah. I gotta teach responsibility. So I'm not trying to be a friend.
Robert Jackson:I'm trying to make a connection. Mhmm. So me coming in with my socks pulled all the up and the little shorts and the shoulder pads on, it connected with them. They thought that was hilarious. And here I am.
Robert Jackson:Can you imagine your teacher teaching with shoulder pads and the helmet?
Jordan:None of my teachers. They don't have your physique. I don't want to.
Robert Jackson:Well back then, they can't back then. I wouldn't do that today.
Jordan:Can you speak tomorrow like that?
Robert Jackson:Oh no. I'm old now, that was back in my young days. But I just think just thinking out the box with different ways to connect especially with this new generation. I mean, it's it's it's tough to connect with kids who are always in their phones. Mhmm.
Robert Jackson:That's what they do. Maybe have some incentives like, hey, if we do this, that, the other, and everybody can get their phones out last ten minutes. Just find ways to connect and be consistent with it. And that's a problem I have with educators. You gotta be consistent.
Robert Jackson:Be fair and be consistent.
Jordan:My wife had a boss, he tried so hard to build those relationships, make those connections. But he would make it like a task item on meetings of build relationship. It was like a checkbox. Mhmm. And that really got again like, that impacted her because she was like, you don't really care.
Jordan:Like, that doesn't build that trust. Like, that
Robert Jackson:Right. Yeah. He he said he had a box that said
Jordan:build It was like like, I don't like goals for meeting, Build relationship. And then like everything else. Was trying. He was trying really hard. But I tell that story just to say like, because there's I think there needs to be some authenticity Yeah.
Jordan:Of that consistency. And just as an encouragement, think sometimes building relationships we've we've been friends for a while. There's times where I've fumbled the football in our relationship, Will. Like, I'll say something that isn't quite right or make a joke about something that I think is Okay that is not Okay. So one, just as an encouragement, I feel like, that consistency.
Jordan:Just keep trying and building, being honest. Say, hey, I'm sorry. I messed up.
Robert Jackson:Will you
Jordan:forgive me giving those examples? But along those lines, specifically in cultural awareness things, a lot of teachers may mean well in some of the ways that they try and Mhmm. Include culture and, recognize different cultures and and things like that. But like, I don't know. What do you have any advice for some people that might, What so so to speak, fumble that football of, Hey, I tried to kinda bring some cultural awareness, but I made a mistake.
Jordan:What is that? What
Robert Jackson:use racial microaggressions. True. That help, that? You know, when you're trying to do that. But educators just need to know that if you make a mistake, just apologize.
Robert Jackson:Mhmm. And then after you apologize, say, teach me because I wanna You know, and I think that's where the ball drops. You apologize and then you go on to do the same behavior again. And you do it again and you do it again without learning the lesson. And if it keeps happening to you, you haven't learned the lesson yet.
Robert Jackson:Yeah. So if you do make a mistake, now it's time to ask a question here. I need you to educate me. And I promise you, kids will educate you. They love doing it.
Will:Yeah. They
Robert Jackson:say, well, listen, when you say this, you need to say it this way. When you do this, we do it this way because of this. And and and you're you're increasing your knowledge, but you also still being your authentic self. If you love country music, then play your country music. Don't be trying to rap and trying to dance looking all crazy.
Robert Jackson:You look crazy. Stop doing that.
Jordan:Own your culture too.
Robert Jackson:Yeah, hone your own culture and teach kids about you, but in return say listen this is who I am, this is what I like, tell me who you are, what do you like? And then you kind of trading off and learning about each other. And I think that's where the ball has dropped because some educators, they want kids to learn about them. They got their little posters up, they got their rooms decorated the way they want them decorated. They're playing the music they like, but they don't want to learn about the kids.
Robert Jackson:Or they want to just bash them like, I don't wanna listen to none of that. Well that's what they listen Maybe you should try to listen and learn. Why do you listen to it? What do you like about this music? What does it do to you?
Robert Jackson:Well this motivates me. I listen to this before every game and was talking about you know, killing and is talking about, you know, this, that and the other. Then the kid get to thinking like, wow, it is talking about that. Maybe I should change what I'm listening to. You know, but if you can never establish that rapport and start having that conversation, it goes in a circle and nothing's ever accomplished.
Robert Jackson:But we can't continue to stereotype kids, we've to start asking them questions. And we can't just push off what's important to us. I mean even with my own kids, my kids at home, man, it's a generational gap there, right? So I gotta learn from them. Because my son, he's in his twenties.
Robert Jackson:He teaches high school. He teaches forensic science.
Jordan:Oh, cool.
Robert Jackson:And he coaches basketball. But even he, you know, it's a new generation. I remember connecting with him and his friends and now he's 27 years old. He's a teacher and a coach and now he's learning new things about these kids. He calls me all the time, Dad, guess what?
Robert Jackson:I said, I told you. I said, That's all you gotta do is ask questions. You're gonna learn some things that you didn't know. He think he knows everything. I said, Your kids will teach you and they will.
Robert Jackson:I'm a couple generations removed from that, you know, so I let him handle that.
Jordan:Gotta let him learn something but yeah I think this episode is just ask questions.
Robert Jackson:And when you ask the question make sure you practice active listening and understanding. Don't just ask a question and move on, Get an understanding of why they answered the way they did, why I listen to this, why I do this, and you get a better understanding because, you know, I've seen a teacher snatch a guy's phone from me one time. That phone was his life. That's how he gets paid, that's how he works and makes his money and everything else. And some of these kids, you know, they go nuts over them phones.
Robert Jackson:Know, I just don't believe in just snatching somebody's stuff from them. I believe it's a more respectable way of doing things. And come to find out, this young man, if he did not do certain things on his phone, his family wasn't gonna eat that night. How would you know that if you don't ask questions? You're just snatching stuff from kids and he's going crazy, he's going crazy for a reason because he's hungry.
Robert Jackson:He knows what it feels like to be hungry and he don't want to walk around, he don't want his family to be hungry. So there's certain things he had to do on his phone, it's part of his job. It wasn't nothing illegal, was just things he had to do on his phone he tried to explain it to her and she told him to shut up.
Jordan:That hurts.
Robert Jackson:Those type of educators is is is how can you build is he gonna trust her?
Will:No. Never.
Robert Jackson:He's not. Never. She can walk in love till the till till the storms Mhmm. And get Sunny again. But he's not gonna trust her.
Robert Jackson:And if he don't trust her, he's not gonna learn from her. And then we get all these test scores and he's not doing well in his test scores and that's a whole another category. You didn't make the connection. I try to teach educators how to make the connection, impact, inspire growth, plant positive seeds. How you do that?
Robert Jackson:You got connect first. If I can't connect with you, then I can't do anything anyway. Game over. Because the number one assignment for an educator is to capture that kid's attention. You know why?
Robert Jackson:You can have the best lesson plan, you can been educating for forty years, nobody cares. If nobody's listening to you and you haven't made a connection, then it doesn't matter what you teach them.
Jordan:Yeah. That's 100% true. Yeah. We've covered a lot of ground so far in this first half. And I love it.
Jordan:Hate to kind of pause it for a minute, but we're going to take a short break and come back. We'll continue this conversation, get into some more practical things of cultural awareness and those things that teachers can get into their classroom and take away. I think there's already so many things that I kind
Will:of named a bunch too, so it's good.
Jordan:Yeah. Yeah. But we'll circle back to some or whatever. But anyway Sounds good. Hang out, guys, for a couple minutes, and we will see you on the other side of the break.
Will:Alright. Welcome back everybody in this episode of the Innovative Schools podcast. Jordan and I are joined with Robert Jackson as we're talking about building cultural awareness in your school.
Jordan:We pretty much just recapped asking questions.
Will:Yes. So the full recap so far, the first thing is asking questions to build that connection. So with with that in mind, that's where we'll start and kinda keep pushing on. With
Robert Jackson:that
Will:in mind, we're gonna keep rolling there. So what strategies can educators use to better connect with culturally different students? So we've mentioned asking questions, but what are some of the things that educators can use to really build those connections and bridges with all the students in their classroom?
Robert Jackson:Well, once you compile all the information that you've learned, maybe you learned about the different backgrounds and cultures, now I need to see it. Show it in your classroom. Have a day where maybe that kid can get up in front of the classroom and talk a little bit about their culture and it can teach some of the other not only is it teaching educators, it's teaching classmates because kids are cruel to each other, right? Yeah. And kids make fun of each other because if it's not normal to me, then I'm gonna make fun of you.
Robert Jackson:But instead, you're getting folks coming up in front of the classroom and educators can lead this and they're talking about their different cultural backgrounds and where they come from and the food they eat and how they celebrate their culture and how they celebrate different things. I mean, feel like it's a good learning tool for any classroom, not just for the teacher, but for the students. And also there should be some representation in the classroom. I should see like things around the classroom that remind me of my culture. You know, I think for everybody, every different culture in that classroom should be represented somewhere on the walls.
Robert Jackson:I mean, different ways you can do it besides talking about it. I want to see pictures on the walls. There's so many different ways to connect outside of asking those questions. Have to put it into motion at that point. You've asked all the questions, now you've gotten all the answers, now what are you going do with that information?
Robert Jackson:Well, why not have the kids use their voice? Get up and explain, well, you know, I was born in India and we do this or I was born in Harlem and we do this, you know, because, you know, kids need to learn about each other too.
Jordan:Yeah. And just because you said it earlier and I just wanna make sure because I find myself slipping into this a little bit.
Robert Jackson:I'm gonna
Jordan:be honest right now because I trust y'all. But earlier, right, we said, I don't know if I should anymore. Hold up. He goes, really? You trust me?
Jordan:I don't because we you were saying and I agree that culture is not color. I forget what you Not necessarily. Say culture is
Robert Jackson:not necessarily color.
Jordan:I apologize. And so I just find myself, as you're talking, you're saying they should see their culture around, is that it's not just you know, if they're from another country or something like that. But the culture can be down to just likes, dislikes, things that they find fun
Robert Jackson:or It can be food. Food. Different foods.
Jordan:It could be hobbies.
Robert Jackson:How you dress. Come in dressed like your culture or come in dressed the way that your culture dress. Mhmm. You know, or maybe have a day where everybody can come in and talk about different foods they eat and why they eat them and Yeah. What they don't eat because some certain And
Jordan:it's not necessarily don't eat pork,
Robert Jackson:you know?
Jordan:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not necessarily just I don't know if this but out of the norm foods we're in America, so out of the norm of, maybe foods from other countries, but it could just be like, hey, my family, like one of the very special things in our family is grandma's spaghetti. Like that's a cultural thing in our family.
Jordan:Right. Like we all fight over that recipe and that last meatball. Like, I'm not even kidding. This isn't just like a high like hypothetical. This is a legitimate thing.
Jordan:You know, we're there for Thanksgiving or Christmas or whatever. I'm like what? We don't care about the turkey. What night is grandma's spaghetti coming Right? Exactly.
Robert Jackson:And then you then along with the spaghetti, what do you do? We talk, we have conversations about life and we talk about this. This is when we have our greatest conversations when we're eating grandma's spaghetti. Yeah. That's a culture thing.
Robert Jackson:Mhmm. You know because that everybody looks forward to. I see how excited you got, hey it's grandma's spaghetti, you're looking forward to it. Hopefully it tastes good too, but Yeah. You know, think I think the whole atmosphere around grandma's spaghetti is the the camaraderie
Will:Yeah.
Robert Jackson:Bringing everybody together and talking and having conversations. All that's culture.
Jordan:Yeah. And I I just see so many pathways of working that stuff into lessons and things. So I I think about my daughter was working on like writing directions. Like that was one of the things that they're learning, like making sure to follow directions and steps and how do you write out directions so people can can do the things that you're asking. And like
Robert Jackson:Okay.
Jordan:Bringing in like, I could see maybe I'll say this to her teacher. I don't know. I'll be like, yo, she could like, part of this is writing out how to make grandma's spaghetti and work it into what's happening. Like, I see pathways of culture up on the walls for sure, but also how can they be incorporated into what they're learning
Robert Jackson:Mhmm.
Jordan:So that they are meeting content, they are sharing their culture and they're learning other
Robert Jackson:I couldn't agree other with you. That's that's that's all that, everything you just shared, that's what it is. But can we get to that point where we can do that? Do do my kids trust me enough that I can allow them to express themselves and be comfortable in this space and not feel stereotyped or made fun of because kids are gonna laugh and they're gonna make fun of stuff because they don't understand. And if you don't understand something, another thing they can do is listen to kids.
Robert Jackson:I mean, listen to some of the bad stuff that's happened because what you know, people stereotyping kids and I've seen 12 year olds, you know, crying, talking about, well, made fun of me because of this and, you know, my grandmother makes this and and we grew up this way, you know. So I think having that conversation and making sure that my class understands that, you know, we are all different, but we all unique. We got different experiences, and we're going to talk about some of those experiences today. And it helps us get to know each other better. Yeah.
Jordan:How, this seems loaded. I'm just gonna say, like, how important it's not really important. That's not what I'm asking. I just wanna I guess I wanna say is I think kids take a lot of cues on how to respect culture from the adults in the
Robert Jackson:school. Do. Not just in the school, but at home
Jordan:At home, too?
Will:Yes.
Robert Jackson:Yep. They do.
Jordan:But I think that's a heavy weight. I mean, just thinking about how just those different responses and they can be everything down from microaggressions to bigger things. The kids, they just take cues from the way that we respond to those things.
Robert Jackson:They do. I mean, when you're watching your parents who are raising you behave a certain way about a certain group of people, you're forming that opinion in your mind. Maybe they're not good people. You know, I'm at the airport and I remember this was some years ago but I remember I was at the airport and this little girl could have been no more than three or four years old, mommy, there go one of them. That's a race of microaggression.
Robert Jackson:Those are the everyday insults and demeaning messages sent by people who are unaware of the messages they're sending. Little girl three.
Jordan:Yeah.
Robert Jackson:Who's teaching her? And her mom said, oh, I'm so sorry. I said, why don't you explain what that means? What are you teaching her about people that look like me? See, it's a difference between culture and race.
Robert Jackson:Mhmm. Now you get into the race stuff, that's different, you know. And this young lady, they go one of them. That's a racial microaggression or you're different than them. Who is them?
Robert Jackson:What does that mean? When I see you I don't see color. What are color blind? I see color every morning. Y'all see color when y'all see me?
Robert Jackson:Yeah. It's okay. I let you color blind right? And I had a good friend of mine that was color blind, I get it. But don't say stuff like that, just or I got plenty of white friends, I got plenty of black friends and I got plenty of Mexican friends.
Robert Jackson:Just say I got plenty of friends, why is there got to be a I race on got friends and that's good that you have friends but you don't have to point out that oh my best friend's black. You want a cookie or something? Well you want a wart? Yeah. You know stuff like that.
Robert Jackson:Know and I think people are unaware of the messages they're sending. I was on a plane working on one of my books and the guy next to me, you type fast for a, he never finished. I said for a what? What does that mean? You know, so those kind of conversations need to be had and when and I don't mind addressing it, but sometimes you get tired of addressing it.
Robert Jackson:Yeah. Especially when you get my age, you know, I've been doing this stuff for a long time, but I had to breathe and say, now it's teaching, it's lesson time, I got to teach. And that's the only way you're going to get past, you got to teach. Can't get in your feelings all the time, you have to be able to teach this thing. If you can't teach it, then you're not going to get anything accomplished.
Robert Jackson:Yeah.
Will:Yeah. You probably fill a book with all your stories like that honestly.
Robert Jackson:Too many to count, you know. So, but like I said, teachable moments, and I think you can use some of those examples to teach what not to do. Or, you know, I know you're used to doing this, but it's not right to continue to do It makes me feel like this. And I think feelings are valid and valued, you know what mean? The way you make other people feel with your comments or your stereotypes, how does it affect other people?
Robert Jackson:How's that going to affect my children who may not have a filter that I have? I've grown and matured it to a certain level that I have a filter. My youngest daughter, she don't have a filter. If she sees something she don't like, she gonna tell you right there in front of everybody. Mean she will and I loved it about her but it makes me cringe too like you gotta keep some things yourself.
Robert Jackson:You come and tell daddy, you gotta tell everybody. Well they treated me this way and I don't like it and she gonna tell you she don't like it, right? But you want kids to be honest but we have to also be honest with ourselves. We don't always say the right things. I don't care if you're black, white, Asian, it don't matter.
Robert Jackson:I mean we all do it and we have to make sure that we're respecting everybody.
Jordan:Yeah. I think just that honesty with ourselves of I did not, that was not right or honesty of asking like, that, did I say something there that I'm not supposed to is there some is there a blind spot for me that I don't understand that can you help me understand?
Robert Jackson:Back to
Jordan:the questions.
Robert Jackson:And it happens all the time. It's like what goes on in your head? What what have you experienced to make you act like this? Mean I fly a lot, so, you know, I have, you know, high status on Delta and all that. So I fly first class a lot.
Robert Jackson:Right? Mhmm. So I get bumped up a lot.
Will:Just a little flex, you know, just a little flex. So I'm
Robert Jackson:I'm standing in line for first class and this this man, he just steps on my foot and just gets right in front of me. Just stepped on me. I mean, he literally stepped on my foot and got right in front of me. And I'm like, that's crazy, right? Stepped said, I know he just stepped on Didn't say anything.
Robert Jackson:Then I get on the plane and I wasn't gonna say anything, but I'm sitting next to him.
Jordan:Oh gosh.
Robert Jackson:He's in my seat. And I said, I'm in three C. You're in three D. Mhmm. Because it says three c on it.
Robert Jackson:And then I asked him, I said, what made you just step on me and just walk in front of me like that? You know what he said? He said, I didn't mean to step on you, but I could have said sorry. That's the first thing he said. That that's a red flag.
Robert Jackson:I didn't mean to step on you, but I could have apologized. So he knew he stepped on me. Yeah. And the second thing he said really blew my mind. I didn't think you was in first class.
Robert Jackson:I said, why not? He couldn't answer me. I said, why didn't you think I was in first class? He couldn't answer me. And that was bothersome for me, for you, what did he do?
Robert Jackson:He assumed. He assumed.
Jordan:Yeah.
Robert Jackson:And I I can I can I got a million thoughts about it? Right? Yeah. And it's no need to go in in in 100 different directions, but and you probably got a million thoughts. Why would why would you assume that I'm not sitting in first class and I'm standing in line for first class?
Robert Jackson:Yeah. What goes through your thought process to make you do something? And he stepped on me on top of that and didn't apologize. Then he sat in my seat. Yeah.
Robert Jackson:So now I gotta sit next to this guy for four hours. Didn't say, didn't hardly say a word, but just kept peeking over saying what I'm doing, know, but you know, what's in his background that made him feel like this? And so at least I asked him, you know, so. Yeah. I'll say, I didn't think you were in first class.
Robert Jackson:I said, why? He couldn't answer me. Most bizarre stuff I ever seen. I mean, go through so many stories like it's crazy. But those are the type of situation that happens in schools all the time.
Robert Jackson:This teacher grew up this way, she's used to her parents treating a certain group of people this way. So now she has those thoughts and if I don't feel like I can teach you, don't I feel like you capable of learning, I'm not going to treat you as such. And those are kind of educators that I've had in the past as a student and that I've seen in my travels and they don't, well, he's not capable of learning. I said, why not? Because he's just bad.
Robert Jackson:I said, have you ever asked why is he acting the way that did you ever have you ever talked to him? Well, he's always in trouble. I asked you that. I said, have you ever talked to him and asked him, why are you behaving this way? What has happened that's caused you to be this way?
Robert Jackson:I said, just try it. She tried and he told her. He told her about all the stuff that was going on at home. He told her, I don't have food halftime like the oven's warming up the house. He started telling her stuff and it blew her mind.
Robert Jackson:She started crying. Because some of these things that kids go through will bring you to tears. You know, it will make you emotional.
Jordan:Yeah.
Robert Jackson:Right?
Jordan:All of a sudden it just starts to make sense.
Robert Jackson:Even with teachers, you know, I was talking to group of teachers in Montgomery, Alabama just yesterday and lady broke down crying, know, she said I need to do better, I need to walk in love and I need, I said it's okay. Sometimes you got to release some stuff. But you know, you release it and you do better. But some people don't wanna do better.
Jordan:Is that true?
Robert Jackson:Yeah. Some people don't care. And those are the very ones who are working with kids all the time. I've been doing this for forty years. That don't mean you've been doing it right.
Robert Jackson:Means you messed up forty years of generations of kids, you know. Just because you've doing it a long time don't mean it's right. It's true. We got to always have our learning cap on. I've been doing this for thirty years but I'm still learning every day.
Robert Jackson:When I started we had no cell phones and we we have no PowerPoints and all that. You just teaching. Kids throwing stuff at you, you still gotta teach.
Jordan:Still gotta do it. Yeah.
Will:I think what you're saying is really powerful but I think also on the other side like you you were saying that how the teacher grew up and maybe their parents treated a certain group of people a certain way, but I think even the other way, you as an educator entering this classroom where those students, their parents are teaching them. So you're you're already identifying your own biases and stereotypes, then now you're also combating against any that those students have just in your normal teaching as you're going, know, just in those all those moments. So just kinda, I think I'm trying to go back in my own brain to think of maybe moments that we ran into that in a classroom that I was in when I was in school. I'm just kinda thinking of any moments like that, but I yeah. Just think that's You're either way, you're you're identifying it in yourself and you're identifying in them and if it's different you're kind of combating what that kid is learning from you and from their guardian or whoever the whole time.
Will:Just it's a lot of extra going on.
Robert Jackson:It is and that's why you have to be careful even with dress codes. I don't focus on dress codes with kids, I focus on character development. If I teach him how to build his character, he gonna pull his pants up and he gonna do everything else right. But if you constantly take your hat off, take your pull your pants up, but you're not teaching them why. Yeah.
Robert Jackson:Where's the why?
Jordan:The why is so important.
Robert Jackson:Pull your pants up young man because this is where men wear their pants and if you need a belt, I'll buy you one. But you know in prison when you're wearing your pants down here it means this or in slavery it means that and you start educating kids on why to do certain things or you just start building a character in general. You know, you can't, you know, I'm looking at you and your friends and you're ego amongst chickens. You're going to college. Some of these guys are not going, you need to start.
Robert Jackson:I'm not telling you to get rid of your friends, well I'm just telling you that you got to start surrounding yourself with people with like minds. Yeah. You show me your friends, I'll show you your future. And I had to cut off certain people because I had an old man pull me aside and told him, he said, he told me a true story, said, You are eagle amongst chickens. I'm like, What do you mean?
Robert Jackson:I ain't got no eagles and chickens in my neighborhood, you know. So he basically was saying that, you know, you up here and you're going here, they're not going anywhere. So you got to start surrounding yourself with people who are going somewhere like you. That's all he was saying. I asked him, he broke it down for me.
Robert Jackson:And it made me think a little bit like, man, maybe he's right. Could I start asking my friends questions about certain things? Man, forget that, I ain't going to college. You think you're smarter than us and start, you know, and really started being insulting, right? But we got to use these teachable moments, you know, because our mission is to educate, activate and motivate not just now but forever.
Robert Jackson:And then we have to be learning while we teaching. And I want educators to know, you can learn while you teaching. That don't mean you know everything. Nobody knows everything. You still should be learning daily.
Robert Jackson:Everybody. All should be learning about each other daily. I learn stuff every day.
Jordan:Yeah. I try my hardest to learn something new Me too. Every day.
Robert Jackson:Yeah.
Jordan:That's great. Well, Robert, this has been great. Oh, wow. It's over? I mean, we can keep going.
Jordan:We've been talking for a while. I mean, the first episode of questions questions questions is done, I guess. But, no, I've I've really enjoyed hearing a lot of your per perspectives and where you come from because I I agree that culture is is super important to recognizing culture and giving kids, empowering kids to feel strong in their culture and to feel comfortable sharing it. My daughter's a little she's blessed. So her school is a school that has a lot of NATO families.
Robert Jackson:Mhmm.
Jordan:So there's something like 50 countries represented Wow. In her school.
Robert Jackson:Wow, that's beautiful.
Jordan:And they do a great job of helping kids share where they're from and their their kind of cultures and things, but also beyond that is not just like their country culture, but their individual culture. So want to thank you for sharing all of your thoughts and things on Yeah.
Robert Jackson:Thanks for having me. I mean, really enjoyed it, but like I say, it's all teachable moments.
Jordan:Yeah. Teachable moments. I love I love that phrase, but that's great. Thank you. Thank you all for hanging out too.
Will:Of course. I had a great time, honestly. I feel like there's a lot of things that you were saying today, Robert, that I either, you know, had my own story about or just really kinda kinda dug to my heart a little bit of, yes, I need to take these moments. I mean, even with my friends, like I need to take these moments and not react and not get in my feelings, but maybe take it as a teachable time and teachable moment and that. I'm definitely walking away with something today which is always my goal honestly.
Robert Jackson:I've definitely learned that through the years to not take everything personal because when you've been poked on so much your whole life, take it personal. Some people really don't mean any harm. They just, that's how they grew up. So that's when it's a teachable moment. You got to teach and when somebody is willing to learn like, man, my bad, I didn't mean to do that.
Robert Jackson:My dad or my mom taught me this and that don't necessarily make it right, but at least they're trying to get an understanding of how you feel and why you feel the way you do. And that's why I encourage educators all the time said, sit down with each other and talk. And when you talk, listen, it's about acceptance and respect. I may not agree with everything you say, but I'm accepting and respected. Sure.
Robert Jackson:That's important.
Jordan:Yeah. That is really
Will:important. Absolutely.
Jordan:Yeah. Well, thanks everyone for listening to this episode. Again, thank you Robert. Thanks Will, for being We hope you guys learned something. I know you did.
Jordan:I don't know why I say hope. I know you learned something Yeah. Today. But we ask, if you enjoyed this episode, that you like and subscribe, share it with some of your colleagues and your friends. I say this all the time.
Jordan:We don't do this podcast just to become a popular podcast, but we do this to help educators, and we can't help more educators without it being shared. So I hope that you subscribe and you share it, and we will see you guys on the next episode.