On this episode of the Innovative Schools Podcast, we sit down with doctor Dorina to talk about multilanguage learners and how every educator has a responsibility for their roster. Come on. Let's learn together. Hey, educators. Welcome to the Innovative Schools Podcast.
Jordan:Jordan and Liz with you.
Liz:Hey, guys. How's it going?
Jordan:Liz, it's been a minute.
Liz:I honestly have missed you guys so so much. Like, I haven't been here in a while.
Jordan:Who do miss the most? Can you which viewer or listener have you missed the most?
Liz:Okay. So my friend from Colorado Springs, Colorado is the one I've been missing most.
Jordan:Did you just make that up?
Liz:I did. Okay. Cool.
Jordan:No. Well, if you're listening Colorado Springs, Colorado, you know you're missed by
Liz:You're missed.
Jordan:By Liz.
Liz:Hey. I'm happy to
Jordan:be back. Okay. I wanna remind everybody. Some people may not know that we have a video version of this podcast and an audio version. True.
Jordan:The video version is on YouTube. You can just search up Innovative Schools Podcast. You can also look at the video version on the accued.com platform if you want to. That's another great place to look at. And then the audio version is everywhere podcasts are available.
Jordan:There's way too many to to to talk about. But just wanted to remind everybody that we have multiple versions, multiple ways to to view this. Yeah. We try our best to honor both the video and the audio. Sometimes we do something in the video and we forget to describe it in the audio, so I apologize for that.
Liz:I'm always guilty of that.
Jordan:Just wanted to take a minute to to point that out. Yeah. But now that we have all that out of the way, Liz, got a question for you.
Liz:Okay. I think I'm ready.
Jordan:Did you have to learn a language in school at any one point?
Liz:I did. Don't know how well I learned it, but starting around eighth, seventh or eighth grade, we had to start taking a language.
Jordan:Oh, as early as seventh or eighth grade?
Liz:Yes.
Jordan:I didn't have to do it until high school where I was. But Yikes. What language did you choose?
Liz:I started with Spanish, actually. And I can't tell you how much I really held on to it.
Jordan:You Yeah.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Yeah. I need to know where the bathroom is.
Jordan:That's it.
Liz:I'm always gonna need to know something about what's that thing? Yeah. I can't really give you a lot of what I learned. But then I switched to French.
Jordan:Okay.
Liz:And I had that up into college, and that was really fun. I can't really remember a ton of, you know, because I don't use it.
Jordan:I don't use it, but it was
Liz:really fun. Okay. Does that mean like a little?
Jordan:I have no idea. Okay. I got nothing. Our guest, who we can't talk about yet and shouldn't say anything, is freaking out right now because she probably knows, but we're gonna get to her in just a second. Yes.
Jordan:We will. I took sign language.
Liz:Stop. Are you for real?
Jordan:Yeah. My high school offered sign language, which I really enjoyed.
Liz:Can you say something in
Jordan:American sign language? So I, really simply I mean, I can be like, hi. This is where the video version makes so much more sense. Yeah. But hi, my name.
Liz:Okay.
Jordan:And I can do it, j o r d a n. I don't have a sign name. If anyone's wondering, in sign language, a hearing person cannot assign a sign name.
Liz:Wait. Really?
Jordan:Yes. So someone who is deaf or hard of hearing has to assign you one, and I just haven't had the privilege Oh, wait. Someone who has assigned a sign name. But that's beside the point. That's really cool, though.
Jordan:I asked that question just because of getting us in the mindset of learning a language that's not our native language and how that can be difficult and challenging. And some people may think sign language is like, oh, like ASL. It's American Sign Language.
Liz:Sure.
Jordan:But there's differences in the grammar and the way that words are said and different things that exist and don't exist.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Yeah.
Jordan:And likewise, it in in other languages, French, Spanish, obviously, it's even more. Yeah. But today, we're focusing on we're talking to someone who's an expert in the English language learner. So going the other way. People who may students who may be in our school who don't know English as well Absolutely.
Jordan:Or at all. I don't know. I feel like I'm talking a little bit without fully understanding the subject, but that's why we have doctor Dorina Ebuwa. Did I get it?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Absolutely perfect. Thumbs
Liz:up. That's awesome.
Jordan:We're gonna stick with doctor Dorina or doctor Dorito. Wait. That was so cool. Yes. She just did the sign for thank you.
Jordan:Yes. A lot of people do, I think, remember from, like, when they were kids because they teach kids sign language.
Liz:It's so true.
Jordan:You know, more please, thank you, and stuff like that. Anyway, we don't need to talk about my sign language. That's not what we're here to talk about. We're here to talk to you, doctor Dorina. Thanks for joining us today.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Well, thank you for having me. And just before we get anything else, one of the things that is an ELL strategy is also to activate your schemata and honor the prior knowledge that you have. So to let you know that pew un pew, un pew is correct. That means a little. So And then also with sign language, I learned sign language through Sesame Street a very long time Yeah.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:With Linda Beuve. She used to have her book, and I learned it. And it was I knew that it was the night before Christmas, all in sign language that we would do.
Jordan:She just signed all of that phrase, by the way, listeners. Good. Okay. That's so cool. So hold on.
Jordan:So I I was gonna ask you if you learned a language in high school, but I think we've established before we started recording, she's done French, Portuguese, sign language. How many languages do you know?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Let's see. Including pig Latin, I would say six. So I a a, but I do speak six languages, but one plus one is 11 to me. So we all have our, you know, talents.
Jordan:But Sure. It really is. Would you consider yourself fluently in all of those or just enough to be dangerous?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:I am fluent in French, Spanish, English, and working knowledge, strongly working knowledge in Italian and Spanish. So I could easily survive wherever, but in order for me to teach it and to pass the tests, and which is important to mention because I can speak, which is great. I would get a level five on listening and speaking on WIDA or OPA or TELPAS or what all those testing scores are for academic language learners. But if you ask me to write something, I probably would not pass the exam. I would maintain my status as a Spanish, you know, as a second language, you know, Italian as a second as a second language.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:So that's a that's a big thing that you can have that idea of what children go through, whereas I can speak beautifully and and, you know, survive no problem on the streets. I'm good to go. But if you ask me to actually go to college for it, you ask me to read an academic book
Jordan:It's different.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:That's gonna be hard for me. So that's a big difference. Gotcha. Gotcha. Know that in education systems.
Jordan:Okay. Cool. Yeah. There's you have such an energy, and there's so many mysteries into, like, who you are and everything. So we've had you at a couple of the Innovative Schools Summit.
Jordan:That's how we kinda got to know you, which has been great. But for our listeners that may have not been to a summit or anything like that, I guess it seems like you definitely have a passion for language, maybe. I don't know if that's true or not. Maybe I'm putting words in your mouth, but if you know that many languages, I would imagine that's kind of a thing. And you your kind of platform is, like, English language learners and things like that.
Jordan:But well, okay. So there's two things I wanna get to quickly is a little bit about you, why you have this kind of passion, and then we'll get into, if I even said that correctly, of English language learners. So let's tackle the first one of what's your passion when it comes to this whole subject of these students who don't have English as their first language? I don't know if I said that correctly. Okay.
Jordan:You do. Please help me.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:The one thing I will tell you is the academic term that I tell everybody when you sometimes are innocently ignorant to something but want to learn, the academic term is, you know, forgive my innocence of ignorance. However And then you say that, which is perfect because then you're saying to someone, I don't know, but I'm willing to learn. And so that's why. So you would say, forgive my innocence of ignorance, but is it ELL, ENL, five zero one, four zero three c, five zero one K? What is it?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Right? What's the acronym for English learners? And it it does differ, but we'll go back to the first one, which is the passion. So Sure. I guess the passion really started when I was in third grade.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And as you can see, I sound like Joey Bag of Donuts because I am from Long Island. Sweet. You're gonna have to have subtitles for the actual podcast because, you know, it's like, what's up? But you're gonna hear it, and it's kinda funny actually because when I teach my students from Bangladesh, which are they're very proud to learn English from England quite often, I had a parent conference with their with my two students' parents, and they said, we really don't understand, but she keeps on saying chocolate and coffee. Yeah.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:That's kinda what happens when you get passionate about teaching English. But it actually happened when I was in third grade. I was in third grade in missus Smith's class in Circle Hill on Long Island in '19 and what happened, basically, is we had during after the fall of the we had a lot of Iranian kids, and then we also had a lot of Korean kids to after the Korean War. Yes. I am strange because I'm only 29.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:How would I know all that? But I digress. Point is, during my time in third grade, my teacher made me the ambassador for all the new students who came in, and I was obsessed. I absolutely loved just seeing people who were different and the kindness and empathy of being a highly sensitive person, they really I just gravitated to them and wanted them to feel safe and comfortable and welcome. But I took to language easy anyway.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:My grandmother was speaking Sicilian at home, and I was fascinated, but she didn't want to. She said, no, no, no. You have to speak in English because we really, at this time, we we don't it was something that was frowned upon. Now, we embrace it. But prior to that, Nona was like, nah, we're not gonna speak it.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:So it was hard for me, but when I would hear her on the phone talking to all my aunties in Brooklyn, I was like, woah, I wanna know what that is. Fast forward to doing really well in seventh and eighth grade like you in the French language, and then doing it again in high school, and then traveling abroad and just realizing this huge world out there through language. So to answer this for you, it's not necessarily about linguistic passion as much as it is about connectivity, cultural passion, and understanding everybody through language. I believe to get to the heart of the person, you get to language. And I I create that space of joy in my classrooms and everywhere.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And when you become that person who just is so open to so many other cultures, language comes easier because it's an act of love for other people.
Jordan:Sure. So you went from you you had this in grade school, and then what's kinda been your education trajectory? Were you an educator for a time? Did you at what levels and kinda a little bit of what you you do now?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:It's a great question. I I went for French and international economics. I was gonna marry my high school sweetheart, and I was just gonna be at home and be a trad wife. Right? That's what I was gonna do.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And I was loving life, and my parents were like, paid for this education. But when I studied abroad and I traveled the world, I went, that's it. And what happened to me is that I wound up at the age of 16, I started working at Victoria's Secret, and I absolutely loved working retail.
Jordan:Didn't know we needed to put a parent warning on our on this episode.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Prior to what Victoria's Secret is now, it was extremely elegant. It actually kinda had a look like this. Everything was like Bridgerton She
Jordan:held up a coffee mug. Everyone who's just listening, she held up a coffee mug with a flower on it. It was lovely. Just those just listening, I didn't want your brains to go crazy. We are gonna have to edit this way down.
Jordan:Sorry. Continue. Sorry. I know I love it. I love it.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:I'm very visual. Sorry. But, yes, it was very Victoria's Secret was very at the time prior, back to then in late eighties, early nineties, it was very elegant, and it had a lot of flowers. It looked like English countryside, English garden. There was an elegance to it.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And, ugh, gosh, did I
Liz:love it.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And I love selling the fragrances, and I just loved it. And the silk was beautiful, and it just felt so feminine and beautiful. But the because Victoria's Secret was so popular, there were so many tourists. And so I wound up using what I learned even early on, living in New York and learning French, and then moving to Boston and doing the same thing in Boston where I wound up being the international, you know, person that anytime a client came in, I would work with them because I spoke these languages. And it's just really weird.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:But and when I saw that I was really good at it, I just it was just this strange feeling for me. Like, I I need to be doing more than just going into retail. And so when I saw that the trajectory of my life wasn't going exactly how I wanted, my mother, a teacher on in Amityville, Long Island, said, listen. You're great with languages. Do you know this thing called ESOL?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Which a long time ago, it was called ESOL. A little bit sometimes still. But she said, why don't you give it a shot? Go get your master's and go and she does talk like this, by the way. Go get your master's and go and figure it out.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Go qualify for your master's program. Go do something in ESOL and become a teacher. Why not? So I said, okay. I'll give it a shot.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Before I knew it, I went to UMass Boston, and I did not get in automatically. I had to actually take a course and then prove to doctor Donalda Massetto, who is absolutely excellent in linguistics. He's a guru in linguistics. He didn't accept me. I had to have an interview with him, take a course.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And why I'm saying that is that incremental is monumental. You take these little steps to get where you need to be, and you don't have to be perfect in something. You just have to have heart and work hard. Mhmm. And when it came to doing this program, very few people were accepted.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And when I finally got accepted, I didn't realize that was such a big deal. Got my master's in applied linguistics at the UMass Boston and wound up teaching in Massachusetts for a while, a couple of schools, and then a couple of districts. And I wound up teaching Brazilian Portuguese, which is so strange, But because I, in fact, had the linguistics and applied linguistics and dual language masters, they put me right into a program with Brazilian Portuguese kids and kids from Portugal. Mhmm. And I was thrown into it.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And I was thrown into it because they didn't know what to do. Because at the time, it was still so new. And so I did it, and I just fell in love with teaching English to third and fourth graders who spoke Portuguese. And that was the moment that I said, boom. So it wasn't this, I was called to be a teacher.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:It called me from inside. No. I was teaching I was selling bras. And then all of a sudden, was like, this is Right? And I said, this is amazing.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:I love doing this. The return on the honor, if you will, of teaching children is seeing, yes, the light bulbs, whole nine yards. But watching this pattern of recognition in their beautiful brains and learning language, and then you start learning about the brain, and then you see how language it just linguistics is just so fascinating. And from that, I wound up just studying more languages, studying more languages so I can study the children of whom I serve. And that's kinda where it all just snowballed into something absolutely fabulous and passionate.
Jordan:That story went so many places I did not expect. Honestly, it was one of my favorites. Wonderful. I mean, it's like, just the building of your passion and how you've been able to use it at different places and different times into because now, like we said, you've come to a couple of our summits, and, you know, you're teaching other people. You're expanding even beyond that.
Jordan:You said, I care about these students now. How can maybe I'm putting words in your mouth. How can I help even more students? And that's kinda how we ended up here on this podcast. We just said, hey.
Jordan:Doctor Dorina, you have such a passion for these students. We want more people to kinda hear that and hopefully catch some of that passion. So to kinda move us into that classroom, how we can kinda get into into the the our listeners right now, let's go back to my second question, which was I don't remember exactly what you said. My innocent ignorance?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Or Yes.
Jordan:My Is that what okay. Yeah. ELL, English language learners, English as a second language. Is that one that's thrown around too? Just Mhmm.
Jordan:What is the correct way to talk about help me understand
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Perfect.
Jordan:These students where they are, and let's let's just get all of us, me, Liz Mhmm. And all of our listeners, let's just get on the same page on what exactly we're gonna be talking about and and who those students are.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Perfect. That's why I put my hair up. I got my messy buns, so let's have some fun. You ready
Liz:to go?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Double chin. We're gonna dive right into this. Okay? So let's get going. And, I sweat if I breathe the wrong way in my Gen X appause, so you'll have to bear with me.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:So those listening, you understand, but I digress. Let's get talking. So it is everywhere. Right? There is ESL.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Right? It originally started with ESOL and ESL. English is a second language. English is a second or other language. Right?
Jordan:Okay.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:ESOL, teachers of English speakers of other languages, changed. Right? Not English as a second or other language. That constantly evolves along with the research and along with the actual, you know, fabulousness of what ESOL really is. People still say the word ESOL.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:You can use ESL. ELL, English language learner. K? ENL in New York represent English as a new language. Right?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Nice. EB in in Texas, which is emergent bilingual. Right? You have all these different ones. EFL, English as a foreign language, and then you also have ML, which is a multilingual learner.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:They technically are interchangeable, but with the OELA, the Office of English Language Acquisition, not too sure if it's still there anymore, but we're that's another podcast for another time. But the federal government has the OELA, and interchangeably, they use ML, ELL, writing, and speaking. So a lot of times when they make documents, it's ELL, but has since changed. So for the most part, I will say the best thing to say is multilingual learner at this point, and there's many others that people are creating. And the reason we say multilingual learner is because there are a lot of children who come to The United States learning a lot of languages before they learn English.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:They're a multilingual learner because they might know French and Creole. They might know Cape Verdean Creole and Portuguese. They might know Arabic, and then they might know French. There's other languages besides English, but also, it's a multilingual learner. So now we're honoring their heritage language, their first one, and then they're learning English.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:So when we say multilingual, multicultural, because that's exactly what's happening. Right? You're you come to a to The United States, and you're just like, oh, I'm now having this education. I'm going to a k through 12 education system. I'm so excited.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:I am someone who speaks, let's just say Portuguese, and I'm so excited to learn English. I'm a multilingual learner. Doesn't that sound so much better than I speak Portuguese, and now I'm learning English. I'm an English language learner. Mhmm.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Right? You see the difference? And what it does is that it doesn't give English power because language is power. But when you give English the power, the dominant hierarchy of English, you are actually saying your language is not as superior as English. What we want everyone to understand is your language should be honored.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Your heritage language is a part of who you are. But, also, if you learn English, imagine the beauty of being a multilingual, multicultural person. You're the global citizen we're looking for in the future. That's how we want everyone to understand that.
Jordan:Wow. Okay. So for for this converse is that I wanna make sure. Is that is is that something that's kinda going through the education industry? Is that yours well, we'll I don't know.
Jordan:I don't know what I'm asking. I'm
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:just I think I understand because I I speak your language, not just English. I think what you're trying to say is, what am I saying? Is that this is that fact? Is that opinion? Is that something that's going through the education system so people is that being taught, or is that just how you feel about something?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And that's important for me to to stress is that we feel things. Right? We do. We feel things about it. Even about English learners, how you feel as an educator.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:How you feel about something and how it should be in your mind is your opinion. What is fact is different than feeling, and what we need to do is get this conversation out in the open and people listening on the podcast to say, okay, what do I feel about that but not stay here? What are the facts about it? What is the research behind it? Let me reflect, not react, and then my lens of life will be able to help me teach English learners.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:That's what this is. That's good. So it is stuff that is fact and backed up research, but as well as we're constantly evolving in our industry. And with the new research, with the new ways of language acquisition, and with the understanding of all the different children that are coming in, we interrupted education, indigenous languages, languages that are forgotten that we didn't even realize existed. This is just brilliance.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:What do we say? How do we say it so that we're honoring child, culture, language, whilst educating them in English?
Jordan:Got it. Yep. Okay. Cool. So for the sake of this podcast, for the rest of it, it's we're gonna stick with the multilingual learners.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Love it. Right?
Jordan:Perfect. Did I get it? Cool. Multilingual learners.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And you can say ML, by the way. ML.
Jordan:ML. Okay. ML. ML. Mhmm.
Jordan:So maybe some of this might be obvious, but I'm I'm curious on your kinda specific since you're in it so so deeply. When an ML student, I'm hoping right? ML student, said that correctly? Cool. Sweet.
Jordan:Comes into a school comes into a school, what are there's obviously the challenge of maybe not knowing enough English to know every be able to comprehend everything or I don't know if that's the right word. I feel like I'm fumbling over everything. But, again, innocent ignorance is what I'm trying to portray here. But what are the challenges for that student kinda beyond, I guess, the language barrier have you seen that that you experience?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:That's a that's a great question. And please understand that I'm not trying to just kind of nitpick what you're saying, but after reflecting on what you said, when you said multilingual learner student, just so it's easier on everybody in the podcast and everyone listening, but also this perfect comparison. Do you know how some people say, I'd like some chai tea? Well, chai is actually tea. So you're saying tea tea.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Right? Or if you say, I'd like some naan bread, and that's well, that's naan is bread. So you're saying, I'd like some bread bread, please. Right? Uh-huh.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:So what we're gonna do in the for the rest of this podcast is just say ML because you're saying multilingual learner student. So that learner and student. So multilingual learner, it's best to just say ML, and we're good to go.
Jordan:Cool. Thanks for helping me learn.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Thank you so much for letting me say all that because that's what we're talking about that if someone doesn't and this is why I really appreciate this time because the fumbling is learning. The fumbling is exactly what children should be doing when they're speaking a language. Right? We shouldn't be intimidated. The actual true stuff happens when you feel embarrassed.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And you're like, oh my gosh. Should I? Should I not? Or I'm fumbling because I'm not too sure what I'm supposed to say. That's beautiful.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:That means that your brain is like, oh my gosh. It's not about the perfection of a podcast. It's not about you have an innocence of ignorance on this topic. You're willing to learn. You're not too sure.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:You have a lot of stuff going on, and you know that you have an expert in front of you you okay. I need to learn from you, grasshopper. I need to learn from you. You know what I'm saying? So this is why it's it's great that you, you know, you just modeled what we want in the classroom.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:We want fumbling. We want grammatical issues. We want kids to kinda think and say what I'm supposed to say. And so to help answer that question as we're doing such great work here learning in this example is it's not just linguistic. It's not just linguistic at all.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And that's why it's so important what we recognize that when children come from other countries to The United States, whether it is for natural disaster, whether it be for political asylum, whether it just be for whatever is left of the American dream, whatever is the opportunity, let's just say. K? The opportunity. We know that we have children that probably didn't come here because they wanted to, but the mom and dad or their guardians knew exactly what was necessary for them to thrive and survive and live a beautiful life. And that is what we have to always remember.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:They are children coming to The United States, and some are even children who have come by themselves. And some are children that are not living lives as children back home. And then they gotta go come into a school based on their age. They have to go into a classroom, and people just go, here you go. Here are the standards.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:You need to finish this by the end of the year. You need to get to this point, and we're gonna love you and make you feel good in this classroom as best as we can. But we got 42 other kids, and this is not my job. That's what a lot of kids see. That's what a lot of kids go through, and that's why it is imperative that we don't discuss strategy of how to teach the English language first.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:We start from strategy from within. What do the teachers believe? What is their lens of life? What is how do they feel? Yes.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:But what do they believe about English learners before you can even scaffold a lesson or differentiate it to meet the needs of English learners? Because if you don't have that first, you got nothing. And it starts from the district down, but I'll take administration and teacher. And I said, thoughts, so you know I'm getting really passionate. I'm not yelling at you.
Liz:I'm just, you know,
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:really passionate. But this thought came out because if we start from the the principals, not someone who's saying I defer to the expertise of the ELL or the CRT people or the the bilingual, the dual lingual teachers or the EML or the ELL teachers, in this case, ML. We have to have the administration know how they feel about the MLs and what they're going to do to provide an equitable education for them. Because by law, documented or not, Player versus Doe, which is under scrutiny right now, and Tennessee wants to just drop it completely. But I ask all those to educate themselves on Playa versus Doe, which is they have a right.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:They meaning undocumented students and all students who come to The United States have a right to a k through 12 public education. I'm getting emotional about it. A k through 12 education. They have the right. So when Tommy McClanahan doesn't wanna teach him and mister Collins in science class doesn't wanna teach him and they put baby in a corner, They don't wanna teach them.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:By law, you have to. But because there's shortage of teachers and there's a lot of things that are going on and teachers are going through so much, then everyone in the administration goes, I know. I know. It's tough. It's tough.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Well, that's where the arrogance of ignorance comes in. And then the teachers become arrogantly ignorant. But if the administration says, hey. Roster equals responsibility. That drop down menu on your computer with the kid with the globe, you are responsible for that kid, which means I'm responsible as an administrator to give you the professional learning needed to, in fact, understand how to equitably teach that child.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:That's what we have to go through. But right now, all I'm looking for is for the mister Collins Tommy McClanahans to turn around and go, I got a bunch of e l MLs in the class. Now I know it's called ML. They're stage one. How do I feel about it?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:What is my lens? What do I believe? Once I do all of that and I kind of kind of take my lens off, which I'll get to in a minute, then now I can do the strategies. Administrator, will you give me some professional learning on what to do for these English learners so I can meet their needs? That is a perfect world.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:A world. And I'm sorry. I'm gonna I'm just ready and step off the soapbox, but I had to do it because fire versus dough is right on the table right now that they might overturn it. So it's it's making me very passionate.
Jordan:Wow. Yeah. No. I mean, that's that's a lot. But like we said earlier, like, we brought you on because of your passion for all of that.
Jordan:And you kinda blew through all of my questions for this first segment, but that's okay because I don't think I could have asked any of those quest any of my questions or anything in a way that would have invoked that. Like, your passion and everything is just so strong and contagious Yeah. For us to, right, to honor that. It's it's the right. We're educators.
Jordan:We educate these students no matter where they come from. Everyone has the right to education and to learning.
Liz:So
Jordan:after that little soapbox, which was great, I say that as a compliment, not as a criticism, what we're gonna do is we're gonna take everything you just said there, and we are going to start giving some things in in our next segment here of we're gonna explore how do we remove that lens. We've already kinda have that first step. You said it in your example there of ML. That's what we're looking at. So those first steps of kinda shifting our mindset as educators and then share a couple maybe practical things to help our our MLs to to start to thrive and get that education that they they all deserve.
Jordan:So that's a long way of me saying we're gonna take a short break, and we'll be right back. So everyone hang out, and we'll see you in a minute.
Liz:See you all in a bit. Hey, guys. Welcome back to the Innovative Schools Podcast. We've been sitting down with doctor Dorina Ebuwa. Ebuwa.
Liz:Ebuwa. Ebuwa. Okay. Ebuwa. See, I'm learning.
Liz:I'm learning. And we've just been having a beautiful conversation about our ML kids, and I did it again. Can I start it over?
Jordan:No. Because it feels like No. No. No. No.
Jordan:I had to flub earlier. You have to flub flub now. We have to flub through it. That's how we learn. That's how we learn.
Liz:Okay. Well Brilliant. Okay. Brilliant.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:This is brilliant. Fine.
Jordan:Well, I was gonna ask you anyway kinda how you were sitting there kinda mostly in what I would describe as aghast through the entire first half. It's hard not to be. You're absolutely right. But what I mean, thoughts, feelings?
Liz:Honestly, I it's so beautiful coming to this space where as an educator, I would I would feel so much responsibility because I do kind of connect so deeply with Doctor. Dorina's kind of passion and kind of drive to be making sure that all of these kids feel like they have a seat at the table. And they feel like, I mean, they're all coming with different, you know, cultural things. I mean, even kids in America, you're coming with your culture with you. But also these kids who are coming from different countries for an array of reasons, are coming with so much more to the table.
Liz:And it's I just think that's so beautiful that we've been having the conversation where it's like, how can we actually not only love these kids well and support them well and make sure that their culture is honored and valued, but also that they're having that equitable, you know, learning experience that it's not just about, you know, science standards or math standards. It's about you're a whole person and we're gonna honor everything that you are, but also we're gonna make sure that you're absolutely kicking butt at excelling, you know, so high. And it's like coming to them in that way is just so beautiful. So I'm like literally sitting here and I'm like, oh my gosh, how can I help? Not as an educator, because I'm not an educator, but I'm like, this is beautiful to talk about.
Liz:So I'm just thankful to be a part of the conversation. TBD, TBD, TBH. TBH. TBH. Yes.
Liz:There we go. But yeah, so I'm just sitting here in awe of Doctor. Dorina and the passion that you're sharing with us. But also, I'm excited for these educators to walk away with really cool strategies and how they can do that. Because I'm like, this is beautiful.
Liz:And I'm like, let's let's freaking go, You know?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Liz, you you get you get the you get the apple.
Jordan:So She's holding up a crystal apple right now. Is that? What is this?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Crystal apple right here because as you can see, when you go look through the crystal apple, you can see varying perspectives of the world, and that's what we want. You said TBD, which is to be determined on top of the world, to be honest. And the fact that, you know, you also pronounced Ebuwa as Ebuwa like everybody does, but you, Jordan, then turned around and corrected, which is exactly what we want. We want people to not turn around and just mispronounce. Language and name is identity.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And do you hear this podcast? The both of you are doing exactly what we want teachers to do. If you are not pronouncing children's names simply because it isn't something of your lens, you should turn around and just say, wait a minute. It's pronounced this way because that is honoring an English a multilingual learner. And that is just so great that everything we just did right now is a strategy just so beautifully.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And just oh my gosh. This is totally for you. And again, this is the the crystal apple just for you. So there
Liz:you go.
Jordan:Thank you. Honestly really beautiful. That is great. So we kind of already did it a little bit, I guess, talking about strategies and things, but not really. Just one little thing you you highlighted kinda what's happening here.
Jordan:And I do love that about what we try and do on the podcast is not just be like, okay. We have an expert. They're gonna talk about things, but we our tagline, you may not know this, doctor Dorina, but we start every podcast. Somewhere in it, we say, come on. Let's learn together.
Jordan:Mhmm. And that's really what we try and do here, and I do feel like we're really accomplishing that here. So where we left off just a little bit was talking about shifting the teacher kind of the way you said it was removing the lens. But so removing the lens, shifting the mindset a little bit. So just what are some ways maybe we can put this in a hypothetical.
Jordan:We have some educators that they're having a hard time. They have some MLs in their class. They don't really know what to do. They know they need to do something. They're not really sure, but they need to start to shift their mind a little bit to help them connect and educate MLs better.
Jordan:What are some first steps, some things that educators what is what are things people can do to help kinda remove that lens to help them see like that Apple you're holding up from all the various different perspectives?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Great question. I will say it's from the feedback from this ISS Accutrain Summit in Vegas that I presented the lens of life. And when the feedback came from the educators, they said, I can't believe the difference when we discuss your linguistic lens and your own lens of life. So I'm going to go it on the basis of feedback from teachers. What the teacher said, and it is very powerful, is your lens of life is how you see the world.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:So the activity that I encourage many people to do either at home or in PLCs or in schools as part of professional learning for yourself, is you take a piece of paper, a stock card, Okay? And you fold it in half, and you create your own frame. And with that frame, you make a picture. Well, the frame, I guess, could say, a lens. You make a picture of a of a camera.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Excuse me. A picture of a camera, old school camera, where there was a flash and everything, like total nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties camera. And in the center is you. There's that circle, which is that one lens of who you really are. But then around it, it's your pillars of how you see the world.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Right? So we're gonna try it right now. I see the world without a without doubt through a New York lens. Right? Everything I do.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:I live now at the Florida Georgia Line, and I can't get New York atomy. Not accent, but things on time, things going quickly. Not perpetuated stereotypes, but there is so much that I have to take my New York lens off and realize this is the way they do it in Madison County, Florida, and it's very different. So in instead of me enforcing, like, your pizza stinks. You need pizza from New York.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:No. Then go to New York and get pizza. Right? What am I complaining about? I need to take my lens off, and I need to realize other things that they're going to be different.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:My lens isn't wrong, but it's just that my lens, in fact, is different from what isn't I'm experiencing right now. Another could be being a teacher being a teacher. Being a teacher. Being a teacher in Florida. Being someone who's married to a man of color.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:I do not see the world the same way the same way at all. Being plus sized in a not so plus sized world, some of those are very surface, not as deep. That's me. Having long COVID, being disabled. What about, perhaps being a traveler, not having children, not being able to have children?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:So I might see a woman online at Target, and there's a baby on a screen, and she's online. And I'm looking through my lens of no kids, my teacher lens, my New York lens, and I'm trying to rush. And I look, and I go, of course. Put the kid on the screen. Put the kid on the screen, of course.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:You know, this is a teachable moment for this kid. Yeah. Dorina, take your lens off and see that that woman just needs two minutes to herself. She's a mom. This kid's driving her up a freaking wall.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Just two minutes. But I only wanted to see it my way. I need you to think of that example and put it into the classroom, how your lens of life, how you see the world greatly impacts how you see children. So maybe you are a staunch democrat, a staunch republican. Maybe you are someone who is, a military brat, a product of divorce.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Maybe it is your sexual orientation that is a part of your culture, an l b g t q LBGTQ plus IA community. Maybe it is not that something that's your identity. Maybe it is your un you are an unbelievable Christian. Maybe you're an atheist. Maybe you've been teaching for twenty five years.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Maybe you've been teaching for a year. There are so many lenses in which not how the world sees you, but how you see the world. And quite often, my lens my lens to Liz is totally different. We might have some similarities. My lens to Jordan is totally different.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:There are some similarities, but when you have the ability to recognize how you see the world and your linguistic lens, where you come from in language prior to starting the podcast, we had great discussions of Jordan learning sign language, Liz learning Spanish, and then French. And then that's part of your lens of your linguistic lens, but where did it go? Why did it drop off? Whereas other people have a different lens because they were born speaking another language or they love languages. Whichever it is, you've got to write them down around that actual camera with you in the middle and then hold it up to yourself.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And then think about the children that are in your classroom. So mister Collins is teaching history, and he's got a child named Miguel Cardoza, and Miguel Cardoza is actually from Guatemala. Quite often, mister Collins calls him the Guatemalan kid because he's so into history and knows what went on in Guatemala. His actual idea is the child is the country, so he qualifies the ML as the Guatemalan kid, not Miguel Cardoza. So what mister Collins has to do is take his lens off and go, that is an innocent child who has the opportunity to learn English and learn American history with me with me.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Not the kid from Guatemala. Not the Guatemalan kid, but Miguel. Miguel. And it is my job because roster equals responsibility to teach him regardless if this is how he feels about Guatemala, how he feels about immigrants, how he feels about this. No one is saying you are wrong.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Not then. I could talk about that in happy hour. But right now, I'm not telling you, as long as you are not impacting people's human rights, your lens is fine. But then once you need to take your lens off to be a teacher, to see people that don't look like you, speak like you, and act like you, and once you have that capacity, and it's a very big reflection, once you take that moment to take your lens of life off to see others, you are already halfway there to teach multilingual learners.
Jordan:Wow. I'm gonna bring something up that you said earlier, which was incremental is monumental. And just as a touch of encouragement, we can sit here really easily and talk about removing the whole lens. Right? Just take everything and put it aside.
Jordan:But I know from my own experiences and thinking back through things that the things that have gone on in my life, that can sometimes be really difficult to try and move that entire lens. And sometimes it finds its way back. Sometimes it goes away, and maybe it's different for different people or different situations. But I I just wanna call back to what you said. I forget the exact contest context that you said it on in this podcast, but you said incremental is monumental.
Jordan:And just as an encouragement to the educators is removing your lens may sound monumental, so take it incrementally if you have to. If you fall off the horse, if you you move it away and it comes back, maybe you only move one piece of it. But I think the key to what you've been saying, doctor Dorina, is the awareness of what is inside of you that's stopping you from, like you were saying, treating them as not the Guatemalan kid, but as an individual who needs to learn regardless of the history. So just as an encouragement to everybody of incremental is is monumental. You may not get it in one day.
Jordan:You may probably won't. I'm not trying to be mean. Just it can be tough. But I don't know. I just I I felt.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Jordan, you said that so perfectly because incremental is monumental in this, and what it is is called reflectivity. And you are reflecting on the equitable education of the children on your roster. So I call it reflectity. You're reflecting on your own practice and the equitable education of the children in your room, and that roster equals responsibility. It does not happen overnight.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:This entire process is one year of reflection for you to even grow. I usually say within the first nine weeks, you should have some sort of true lens of life. Give yourself the first nine weeks of school. If you work in four quarters of school, you think of this four seasons. Right?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:It's your path on four seasons. The first nine weeks, you're in autumn. You're right? You're you're there and you're thinking about it. What is my lens of life?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Within that nine weeks, you should come up with how you see the world. And within that, there should be one small change that you're making based on that lens of life, based on that reflectivity and understanding. And maybe it is the Epcot syndrome that we talk about. And what is Epcot syndrome? That's another strategy that I ask teachers to think about in the first nine weeks.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Do I perpetuate the stereotypes of the children, the MLs, in my classroom based on their culture and their, you know, the general culture and their language up here in the iceberg of culture, or do I understand the individual deeper? Right? So if I say the word Sicilian Italian, be honest, I'm Sicilian Italian, what is the first thing that comes out of your mind? Quick. First thing.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Go.
Jordan:Honestly, pizza. Pasta.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Pasta. Pasta. Thank god you guys didn't say mafia. Okay? Because that's the majority
Jordan:That was second. I'm not gonna lie. That was second.
Liz:I didn't know there.
Jordan:Pizza was first. That was second.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:So what you're more
Jordan:of the accent that does it than Sicilian. It's the accent that gets me.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:You guys are perfect for this because you thought pasta, pizza, you thought mafia. It was in your head. And these are the natural biases that society and a system has created. And I know bias makes people squint. It's an uncomfortable word.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:But we have these internal ones that we go, oh, what why does why do we feel that way? That is natural. No one is punishing you for it. No one is telling you to jump on your soapbox and say, you shouldn't do that. It's, what is it?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Oh my god. I just thought of pizza pasta and the mafia. But there is something deeper, but you don't know yet. Mhmm. Because you're unfamiliar with the culture.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:You're unfamiliar with the deeper aspect of it. So your lens goes to Epcot syndrome. If you've ever been to Epcot here in Florida, you go around, and it is perpetuated happy stereotypes about France and about all the different countries. And, actually, this the people who work there, they're called cast members for a reason. They have to sign a contract saying that they're cast members and cannot deviate from joy.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:So when I wanted to ask someone from Marseille, France, who was working in the with his little perpetuated stereotypes, I asked him when there was a revolution, there was an an issue in France. And I said, and Marseille? What happened in Marseille? Because he happened to say he was from Marseille, France, the South. And I said, how was your family?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:You know? And he's like, No. I cannot speak about that. I'm very sorry, but I cannot speak about that. I signed a contract that said I can only speak on pleasantries here.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:That's what my job is. That's what teachers do. It's called Epcot syndrome, or at least that's what I call it. And when you stay in pizza, when you stay in tacos, when you stay in hijabs, when you stay in Ramadan, when you stay in immigrant, when you stay in refugee, you don't see deeper of the individual child, not the country, not just the culture. Because I know we all could be Americans here, but all our American cultures are quite different, And the same thing goes for each individual child.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Am I saying you have to know each one? No. I'm not saying that right now, but I am saying when you put them as an individual, taking the lens off and seeing a child, not a culture, country, or just a language, you are already, the first nine weeks, making a difference to create a safe environment for a student.
Jordan:Alright. Man. You good over there, Liz?
Liz:I'm okay. I'm okay. Just every time she starts talking, like, doctor Dorina, I wanna run through a wall. Like, sorry. I'm I'm here Why with
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:do you wanna run through run through a wall?
Liz:Because I'm, like, so inspired. Because I'm like, how what can we do?
Jordan:Like Yeah. Inspirational. Inspirational. Inspirational. It makes me think of that scene in Ted Lasso when is it Keely says, let's invade France?
Jordan:Yes. Like, she's so motivated that she just wants to She's invade
Liz:let's invade France. Like,
Jordan:oh my gosh. Go watch Ted Lasso, one of my favorites. I'm not just I have to get a Ted Lasso quote in somewhere and, like, I'll read this. But anyway believe, you got it.
Liz:I love it. Oh
Jordan:my god.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:You guys are so good.
Jordan:Okay. So we've hit first nine weeks. We talked about that incremental monument monumental. What I wanna get it before we kinda close here soon because we are we're going a while, but that's okay. Mhmm.
Jordan:We always leave room for conversation here. Once we're kinda past or we've worked a good amount through the lens, what are things that your everyday teach that doesn't sound the way I want it to sound. Some schools may have teachers, I guess, that are specific for ML. But I'm mister mister Jordan. I am I I I'm teaching math.
Jordan:Math is what I'm supposed to be teaching, but I have a or multiple ML students. I did it again. MLS in my classroom.
Liz:Yeah.
Jordan:What are things that I should be do what are not things. How can I help those students the most? What are things that I can be doing? Reach into your bag of tricks, doctor Dorina, and teach me something that can help me teach algebra or if I'm an English teacher or science or any of those different things to MLs.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Great question. First thing is, I already know roster equals responsibility. We got that. Mhmm. We also have to do I am you're mister Jordan.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:You are a math teacher, mathematics teacher, and you have five MLs in your classroom, five different countries, three different languages. The first thing you're supposed to know is roster equals responsibility, and then Mhmm. TLC squared, which stands for me, tender loving care, we all know, but tough love culture. Mhmm. So it's very important that we do not coddle at all our children in mathematics.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:We do not coddle them in history. We do not coddle them in PE. We do not coddle MLs just because they're new. We give them a little bit of leeway, but we put norms and establish rules very early on, and it is our job to make sure we do that. Because as a math teacher, I will not give them any any no mercy for me.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Okay? There's a no mercy policy for me when I know their mathematical story before I teach them. So if you're a math teacher, you should already know, does the child have interrupted education? In mathematics, focus on mathematics. Know what their scores are if they've just come and they're newcomers.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Here's something you need to understand. Are they brand new to the country, or have they been in the country for less than three years? Have they been in your district? Have they had interrupted education when coming to The United States? Do are they 16 with a fourth grade reading and mathematics level?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:You need to assess that child to know where they are, and you need to teach them there. Well, I teach algebra. We understand that. When they know algebra, even if they're about two grades lower, you could still teach them that algebra, but you need to know where they are because your job, mister Jordan, is to make a child feel safe in a classroom where they are intrinsically motivated to learn, not extrinsically. K?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:So for those of you who are watching, mister Jordan, make a heart like this. Okay? And miss Liz, make a Right
Jordan:in front of my chest, making a heart. Right. With the hands.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Come on, make for those listening, you're making a a heart right in front of your chest. Mhmm. And then you're going to go around and go intrinsic motivation and make a heart inside all the way above your head and all the way down. Go ahead. Do it.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And say intrinsic
Jordan:So put it like that? Okay. Intrinsic motivation. Like that?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Go. Yeah. But it has to be with one more passion.
Jordan:Intrinsic motivation. Intrinsic motivation.
Liz:Yes. Was like, wait. Do I need to say it like that?
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:That's beautiful. My gosh. Because that is what we want to do. Now watch this. Make that heart in front of your chest again, everybody, and then make an x.
Jordan:Come on, listeners. Do it too. Okay. Then make an x with your hands.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And then x out all the way across your face and go extrinsic motivation.
Jordan:Okay. Extrinsic motivation. I'm sorry. I just hit the mic, listeners. Sorry.
Jordan:Perfect. Mic.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And that is the difference between intrinsic and extrinsic. And when you have prior knowledge of your ML and know where they're at, you meet them where they are. And then through TLC, tender loving care and tough love culture, and knowing what their WIDA, their their whichever, 21, whichever standards that you use to show what their scores are in their linguistic scores as well as where they are in mathematics in any testing that you have. But then you should be assessing them the first nine weeks. You should be assessing where they are, and I call this the Kumon effect.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Have you ever seen Kumon in a strip mall? It's like a smiley face that's, like, halfway happy. You ever see that?
Liz:No. I don't think Kumon
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:is an actual Japanese style in which you start easy, and they're like, I know this. I know this. I know this. And it's a psychology where if you start easy, you then build to something harder. They don't even realize it's getting too hard for them.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:That Kumon effect helps English learners. Excuse me. MLs. See how we're making sure it's interchangeable but doing it right on the podcast. So let me rephrase again, mister Jordan, mathematics teacher.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:I need to know where they are linguistically. I need to know if they have interrupted education. I need to assess them where they are before I can even teach them algebra. I need to give them TLC squared, tender loving care, and tough luck culture. That means no mercy in my classroom.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:I know you're an in a multilingual learner, but I want you to know math. And the majority of students without interrupted education in Central American countries have a higher mathematics than others. So do not let a language get in the way of mathematics. And we need to know where the student is from, the country, so that we also know if they didn't have interrupted education because there is a standard of mathematics, and a lot of children are excelling in science and math in specific countries where math and science is so they just love it so much. And then they come here, and they don't do it because they think, oh, I don't speak English yet.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:The power of yet. So as you, mister Jordan, you go up to the student, you let them know using whatever either an interpreter or some sort of device for yourself. I usually encourage teachers to write letters to their students that say, dear Miguel, my name is mister Jordan. I'm your algebra teacher, and I already am appreciative that you're in my classroom. I respect you so much, and I know that English is not your first language.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Although Spanish is not my language, I will do my best to incorporate Spanish, but I really want you to learn English. Therefore, I understand that you need to do a, b, c, and d in my class. Here are my expectations. Please give this to your parents and explain this to your parents as well. We are going to learn together.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:You are in a safe space, and I will be your mathematics teacher. Maybe you can teach me a few things. These are the kind letters that you would write to your English learners, but you're letting them know, no mercy, because I do not like syndrome. And that's what Pedro Nogueira, a sociologist and educator, coined that phrase a long time ago. Mhmm.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And a lot of people don't know where that came from, but we should always monitor where things come from, we give credit where credit is due. And doctor Nogueira actually said syndrome, which is a bigotry of low expectation. And so we have a lot of teachers that come in and think, oh, don't know what to do with them, but they're so sweet and they're so nice. I'll just socially promote them because I don't know what to do. I don't have any strategies.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:That creates long term English learners, long term MLs, which is a detriment. They might be able to like I did, I could speak beautifully and that I could listen beautifully, but I don't know how to read or write. And with that, we are doing a disservice, and that is not equitable education. So we have to be careful of poprecita syndrome. We have to use TLC squared.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:We have to write that beautiful letter to let them know that they are safe. And then we have to know where they are in mathematics. And then from there, we take them where they are plus one or two. Mhmm. And then we standards based teach.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And if that child is not at algebra yet, you can't do algebra. If you don't know other things, you gotta that is called differentiated instruction. Well, I have an ELC, and I have a scope and sequence, and I gotta get it this way. You explain to the multilingual learner person in your school. You also explain to your principal, and you explain to the parents.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:You explain to the student or the guardians and the students. My job is to give you intrinsic motivation to want to do well and be at the level I want you to be in by the end of the year. But if you are just here, I'm gonna build you to where you want to get there over the summer Because my job is not to make you pass the EOC if you are that interrupted in education. If just it's if it's just English that's the barrier and you're really good in mathematics Ho ho. Look out, Miguel.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:There is TLC squared, no poboda cita syndrome. But if you do have interrupted education, I'm gonna give you a space where you can learn to get up to algebra. And I bet you you're gonna be a math professor if you feel like going back to Guatemala. And that is an important thing because you're welcome here to be a math mathematician, to be the Nobel Peace Prize wherever you live. You are safe in my classroom, and that is the biggest thing as well.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:It is our job not to save children in mister Jordan's math class. I need to take care of him. I need I wanna make sure he feels safe. There are those teachers. There are the arrogantly ignorant that put them in the corner, and then there are mister Jordan's who are compassionate and have a little bit of the coddling syndrome.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Well, you can't do it because the kids won't be ready for the world. That's like, remember the titans in the movie when Denzel talks to the actual, offensive coordinator defensive coordinator. And he's like the defensive coordinator says, you're doing doing a little You're being hard on them. And Denzel goes, you don't know what it's like to be a Black man in the nineteen fifties. Still now today.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:You don't know what it's like. You can't cuddle these kids. They're not gonna be ready for the world. That is what mister Jordan, the math teacher, has to say at some point with compassion. And when that is said, then that student goes, woah, profe.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Okay. Okay, mister. I gotta okay. If you just turn around and just go, I don't know what to do, that's pobrecita syndrome, and that's the bigotry of low expectation.
Jordan:I don't know a better place to end this podcast. I mean, just I've said it how many times? The passion from doctor Dorina is just incredible and contagious.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Mhmm.
Jordan:And like you, Liz, let's go run through a wall. I guess I
Liz:got my running shoes on and ready to go. But, I mean, it was such simple strategies. I mean, not always easy, but it's we don't have to overcomplicate it when it comes to, you know, holding them to a high standard. Let's get them to where they need to be. But don't goddle them.
Liz:Don't do that.
Jordan:Let's freaking go. Let's go.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Let's just go. And that's what you once you know and this is the the summary of all of this. Once you know your lens of life, you get away from Epcot syndrome. You know your TLC squared. You don't use syndrome.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Remember the titans. Right? Mhmm. You have roster equals responsibility. You understand that incremental is monumental.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:You know all of that. You understand you know your why. We're the only professional who has a part to our why. We all know our why. We wouldn't be in the classroom.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:We would go sell an insurance. We'd be selling cars. But we know our why, but what we need to know from multilingual learners is the how. We have to reach out to the principals and ask how. That's where we reach out once we know roster equals responsibility, and that helps us so that we can actually believe.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:And believe stands for be the educators who lead to inspire and empower via empathy and English and excellence. So I just hope that everybody gets something out of this that they can just really believe.
Jordan:Thank you, doctor Dorina. This has been great. Liz, you wanna give another stab at the last name? You got it?
Liz:Ebuwa? Ebuwa? Wait. Did I actually get it right? I'm so proud.
Liz:Okay. Yes. Thank you. I was like, please, Lord, let me get this.
Jordan:Thank you. Two two crystal apples right there.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:But
Liz:Thank you so so much.
Jordan:Joining us, doctor Dorina. Thank you, Liz, for being here.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Thank you,
Jordan:all the listeners and viewers. I know, as always, there's something in this episode that struck you differently that you either reminded about or something new that you learned. And I hope you can take that, harness it, analyze it, and take that into your classroom. If there's something in this episode that you thought was particularly important that more people should hear, please share this episode with your colleagues and your friends. We wanna grow this podcast as much as we can not to become super famous education podcasts podcasters.
Jordan:We want to help as many educators as possible, and we can't do that without your help of sharing it. So like, subscribe, favorite, whatever it is on whatever platform you're on. Please do that, and please share this with some other people. We will be back and we'll have another episode coming in a couple weeks. Thank you again, Doctor.
Jordan:Dorina. Thanks Liz for joining.
Liz:Thank you.
Jordan:We'll see everyone on the next one.
Dr. Dorina Ebuwa:Yeah.